The Mighty CB400/4 [Archive]

VtrElmarco

20-Mar-2006, 10:23

Hello All.

For those of you who can get to Friday night coffee at southbank, you may be aware of a very special motorbike that sometimes frequents this little get together.

It is a very cute, little, red CB400/4 attached to a massive black sidecar. It formerly belonged to the Chairman, but it has now been freed from the massive anchor that was the sidecar and now belongs to me (As soon as I can get the money to the Chairman :wink: ). I have bought this little bike as an interim ride after the sale of my fantastic Silver VTR1000. :( I hope to get it RWC'ed as cheap as possible and wobble around on it for 6-8 months before I purchase the next proper bike.

I took the GF along to look at it hoping she would be a voice of reason, and when we got there she just giggled and squealed:

"It looks so cute!"

So there went the voice of reason... :roll:

I jumped onto the ROCK HARD pank of wood that is the seat and fired her up. No dramas at all as she kicked over straight away. The motor is a little rattley, but long term reliability is not a major concern. She has a lovely fruity exhaust note and pulled away quite well until it ran out of petrol. Apparantley bikes require the fuel tap to be turned on. After remebering this I was underway again.

Initial handling was terrible due to several reasons. I badly needs some new ROUND tires to repalce the SQUARE ones currently on it. Side cars do not help edge wear for tires. It also needs some new steering head bearing as the extra weight of the sidecar over the years has left a VERY notchy bearing race. This is a cheap fix, but will require some work to get to them both. It also needs a front fork rebuild (1 fork seal leaking) which is not a great drama as well. But after all this is fixed, I can see a sweet little handling bike underneath a few of these problems.

The rear of the bike is in great nick though. Brakes are in good nick as well as chain and sprockets. All wheel bearings are also good, and the rear shocks are in great condition after being changed for some longer ones to fit the side car. I will leave these on as it will make the bike steer nice and quick, but I will back off some of the preload to stop it kicking me off the seat over bumps.

Well that is enough for now, and I am off to look for some tires for my naff little wire spoked wheels...

:grin:

Dirk

20-Mar-2006, 10:29

CB400/4 = sweeet ride.
A mate had onbe in the early eighties and I've been meaning to pick one up ever since. Great fun to ride and very pretty to look at.
I'm jealous.

Chairman

20-Mar-2006, 10:35

VtrElmarco

20-Mar-2006, 11:21

wobble around on it for 6-8 months before I purchase the next proper bike

What do you mean "the next proper bike"? Proper? Proper!!! The price just went up $100!!! :lol:

Glad you weren't with me on Sunday. Reefton was awash with clunkers - Enfields, a Matchless, CB750 and an immaculately restored 400/4 - complete with those beautiful headers.

Brought a momentary tear to my eye. Have fun with it.

Sorry mate but that sounded worse than what I meant! :lol: Damn interweb.

In the future I will be debating to either go a full restoration (not to concourse standard because those guys are super anal...) or go post classic racing on it. Not quite sure on the direction I will take as yet. I do love the CB750 SOHC models. They look fantastic despite being a UJM.

Chairman, do you have the full model description with year handy?

This could help with finding parts.

Take it easy, Mark.

Chairman

20-Mar-2006, 11:23

CB400/4F (I think - check the headstem for the compliance plate). Found the manual - you'll have it tonight.

VtrElmarco

22-Mar-2006, 11:17

Well the mighty CB400/4 is inching slowly towards getting a RWC. Jobs I have done so far include:

Putting on some new ROUND tires on the front and back wheels. I have got some great tires called Pirelli City Demons. Love the name. No idea of the grip levels though... :grin:

(A big shout out has to go to the guys at Pablos. They really enjoy doing work like this)

Both fork legs have been removed and sent in for some new oil and fork seals. I would have liked to do this myself, but the job only looks easy, and I have a feeling there are many 'trick to the trade' that I don't know about.

I have also purchased now steering head bearings. They are a lovely new tapered set and will replace the trully flogged out ball set that are currently in the bike. I will attempt this job myself on Sunday, so if you can hear some extremely loud cursing coming from the west of Melbourne, you know what is going on.

New jobs to do in the future include sourcing a front brake caliper and seal set as well as new pads and brake lines. The old caliper has no bleed nipple (he he nipple..). I will try to find a caliper at a wrecker and put a new seal set through it. I would also like to make up some custome braided brtake lines for the front end and put some fresh fluid through the whole system.

Much polishing will be done on some wire wheels over the weekend, becuase with a little elbow grease, I think they will come up a treat.

I am also debating whether to whip the motor out of the frame now to replace the cam chain, tensioner, head gasket and adjust the valve clearances. This is a long series of little jobs and I am debating whether to muster the effort for this at the moment?

Well that should keep me busy for a few weekends, and I hope to get a RWC before my trip away. :lol:

vito

24-Mar-2006, 19:44

umm a very nice bike that

hornet

24-Mar-2006, 20:15

oh how well I remember the couple of times I rode the upholstered brick that passes for a seat on the 400/4; RC36 had one many aeons ago. I had an XS-650 Yamaha at the same time, one of the nicest seats of any bike ever, and the 400/4 would put you off riding on a trip to the shops!

port80

24-Mar-2006, 20:17

Good luck with getting it all shiney and new looking, can't wait to see it around.

typhoon

02-Apr-2006, 08:01

In the future I will be debating to either go a full restoration (not to concourse standard because those guys are super anal...) or go post classic racing on it. Not quite sure on the direction I will take as yet. I do love the CB750 SOHC models. They look fantastic despite being a UJM.

Chairman, do you have the full model description with year handy?

This could help with finding parts.

Take it easy, Mark.

Nothing wrong with a UJM.......you may find yourself addicted.

Regards, Andrew.

Dirk

02-Apr-2006, 09:26

Nothing wrong with a UJM.......you may find yourself addicted.

Regards, Andrew.
Dam' straight. Nilly every bike I've ever owned has been a UJM.
P.S. One of the nicest bikes I ever heard was a Z650. Dunno whose it was; I grew up in a little town in eastern Vic and it used to come through every morning and night, but he never stopped. Dad and I used to wait to hear him in the mornings. It used to start the day well.

typhoon

03-Apr-2006, 20:38

Dam' straight. Nilly every bike I've ever owned has been a UJM.
P.S. One of the nicest bikes I ever heard was a Z650. Dunno whose it was; I grew up in a little town in eastern Vic and it used to come through every morning and night, but he never stopped. Dad and I used to wait to hear him in the mornings. It used to start the day well.

You should hear one with pods, 4 into 1 and a glasspack muffler! :twisted: :twisted:
A real easy sound to love.

Regards, Andrew.

VtrElmarco

04-Apr-2006, 14:05

I know you have all been waiting with baited breath on the progress of my mighty red CB400/4. It has actually progressed baclkwards in a good way...

Think about that for a minute :?:

I have removed the whole front end and managed to get the old steering head bearing out with a bit of gentle persuation. They were shagged silly. I still have to remove the bearing races from the bottom triple clamp, and this is currently in the freezer soaking in penetrene much to the delight of the GF.

If anyone has a snazzy way of removing this races, please let us know.

The front caliper has also been sent for a rebuild, so at least she will stop if she every gets rolling again! :grin:

I am hoping to get the forks back this week, and put her back together minus caliper over the weekend.

Thanks all. :grin:

Edit: I also forgot to add that I used a screw extractor for the first time the other day. Bugger me stupid, but it actually worked. Time to source a new speedo cable screw. All metal BOW DOWN TO MY ENGINEERING MIGHT!!

rodgerdodger

05-Apr-2006, 16:54

Sounds like it's coming along nicely, keep us posted, pics would be great!

Just a quick question: where did you send the caliper for the rebuild?

Cheers.

VtrElmarco

05-Apr-2006, 17:18

Sounds like it's coming along nicely, keep us posted, pics would be great!

Just a quick question: where did you send the caliper for the rebuild?

Cheers.

Thanks Rog'

The caliper is just being sent to a personal friend with much more experience in this area than me. There could be some difficulty in the bleed nipple area (heh he nipple) and some funny size threads may be required.

I am unsure of how to do pics at the moment, but I will look into it an see what I can do.

The gods of metal have struck back last night, and I am unable to remove the bearing race from the bottom triple clamp. It may require localised heating instead, or more force. I am undecided in which direction to go, but I like the more force way :grin:

I have also got back the rebuilt forks done by the dead set legends at Pablos. They will not be perfect due to some mild pitting, but they are a definite improvement. The rear wheel was also balanced and the bearing was set with some loctite due to it being a little loose.

Goal for the weekend is to put the rear wheel back on and align. And also remove the bearing race.

(I may just admit defeat over the gods of metal and take it to the engineering workshop here at the plant for some experts to attack)

rodgerdodger

05-Apr-2006, 17:31

VtrElmarco

05-Apr-2006, 18:25

Ah ok, thanks for the quick reply - I was wondering if it was worth taking it to a specialist but I think I'll give it a go myself. I'm going through pretty much the same process with the XL600 that I picked up a while ago.

How much did the fork rebuild cost you? I've heard nothing but good things about Pablo's so I might give them the business as well.

Cheers again.

Hey Rog'

I think I could do the brake rebuild myself as well, but the bleed nipple is the problem.

The fork rebuild cost $ 130 bucks (new seals and oil) which I though was very reasonable. Pablo's tend to be more interested in the project bike stuff than the larger dealers I find so I will stick with them for the weird sort of stuff like the CB400. :grin:

Brucey

06-Apr-2006, 07:32

VtrElmarco

06-Apr-2006, 08:33

Hit that bottom bearing race on the triple clamp with a grinder until its almost through making sure that you do not grind into the shaft / yoke then grab a big cold chisel / brickies bolster and give it a wack it will crack and then fall of takes longer to write this then to do it He He Good Luck with the project

Alright Brucey. :lol:

This is the type of high tech precsion engineering that I like. It will give this a try on the weekend mate. Thanks for the info.

GODS OF STEEL BOW DOWN BEFORE MY COLD CHISEL AND BOLSTER!!

Brucey

06-Apr-2006, 10:18

Heres another one to get the races out of the head stock dont try and knock them out grab the arc welder and run a 1/2" stich weld along the face of the roller area it causes the hardened material to contract and they fall out.

It also works when bearings are seized in alloy wheels remove the rubber seal, punch the cage with a screwdriver and lever out the remains balls,cage and inner race wipe grease away and hit it with the arc and out it falls.

Its the only way of adding metal to something i know to make it easier to get things apart

PS Got to love the gods of steel bit PS also use grinder to sharpen the chisel before the wack and a file to remove the burr afterwards.

GO THE 400 Four

PPS has it got the Yoshi pipe on it yet

VtrElmarco

10-Apr-2006, 12:10

I have finally reversed the trend of the past few weeks, and actually put some parts back onto my CB400/4 murderbioke.

Rear wheel went back on with the minimum of fuss.

Must remember to lube the chain.

I also installed the bearing races into the headstock. The bearing race was also removed from the triples clamp by the liberal use of a grinder, bolster and cold chisel and lubricated off by swearing. My apologies to the neighbors. Thanks for the tip Brucey.

The next step is to seat the new bearing onto the triple clamp, and I will enlist the help of the engineering department at my plant. I think I need to heat the bearing up hot, and drop it onto it's seat, and the allow to shrink into place. The top bearing fits okay already.

This will allow me to reassemble most of the front end, with the only delay being the caliper (my fault).

I will then give it a super clean, some small RW items and then to try to get a RWC.

Brucey

10-Apr-2006, 12:38

No you dont need to heat the bearing it is not a shrink fit item as say a crankshaft bearing.

The only thing you need is a piece of tube with a inside diameter 1 mm bigger than the outside of the bearing journal dia and make sure that it does not interfere with the top of the cage if fitting tapered roller headstem bearings.

Place the assay on top of a solid vice and tap it home using a largish hammer see all you need is a hammer and chisel / Dolly to accomplish most bearing insatllations / Removals

Bugger the duct tape and cable tie brigade

Chairman

10-Apr-2006, 12:59

I think I need to heat the bearing up hot, and drop it onto it's seat, and the allow to shrink into place. The top bearing fits okay already.

I agree with Brucey that you can do it with without heating, but I've found that its easier if I heat and cool bits. Unless you use flame on the race, mild heating won't do any harm but will open up the tolerances enough to make you feel like you're finessing the bearing on rather than thumping it.

Take the shaft, check that it is free of burrs and put it in the freezer overnight.

The next day, get a 60W 240v light globe - a bedside lamp is good for this. Sit the bearing race on top of the globe and drop a little engine oil on it (the race, not the globe). When the race heats up enough that the oil starts to smoke, set up the shaft on a block of wood, pick it up the race with a gloved hand and drop it over the shaft.

Working quickly, use a length of pipe - PVC or brass is best - to tap the race down flat on the bottom of the shaft. It must be absolutely square or it will bind. If this happens, you'll need to knock it off carefully and start again. The pipe must be the correct diameter to sit on the flat inner circumference of the race, not on the bearing track.

VtrElmarco

10-Apr-2006, 13:31

Special thanks go out to the Grand Master Pooh Bears of Metal Work:

Grand Master Chairman The Single Pot Lover
Grand Master Brucey The Weird Arse Italian Bike Lover

I will try the combination of pipe/assay and locallised heat option at home first. I will have to do a little research into sourcing a pipe first.

I have to recommend an old dunger to everybody. You learn heaps about metal work and mechanics. Just a few weeks ago, I only would have been able to remove my own eye with a screw extractor. Now I can master bastard tight little screws with only a minimum of lubricant swearing.

Brucey

10-Apr-2006, 13:54

Thanks for the feedback VTR I heard on the grape vine you know my little sis. Well i have now got a boot load of Plastic Maggot Bits so have had to update my profile.

Watch out for the upcoming topic returning a CX500 to the road for min dollars full of the best dodges and re-engineering for nil cost.

Go The Maggot

Churro Monster

10-Apr-2006, 14:02

Ah, the unkillable Honda CX500. Is it "the Shadow"? how many kays? 500 thous??? prob still original tyres too. Could be scarier, could be the Turbo model :shock: :lol:

Brucey

10-Apr-2006, 14:33

The mighty CX500

It’s a black shadow E model twin disc I think about 79 model 80 model Comes with the cycle style full fairing motor in a million bits ( Two motors to filter through ) with a big end that let go and just caught in time so no visible damage as yet needs fully strip and measure up the crank etc

Performance mods known to be able to reach 20,000 rpm.
:cool: :cool: :cool:

Speedo shows 35,000 ks so more likely 735,000 ks
:shock: :shock: :shock:

and the usual assortment of value adding spiders and dust an inch thick to add to the general platina of class surrounding this busa eating weapon. stay tuned

Churro Monster

10-Apr-2006, 14:51

Has this bike made it into your shed cause it has an engine configuration similar to that of an italian bike?

Churro Monster

10-Apr-2006, 14:52

But more reliable :)

Chairman

10-Apr-2006, 15:09

Has this bike made it into your shed cause it has an engine configuration similar to that of an italian bike?

By Italian, do you mean:

A) a tranverse V-twin or
B) in a million bits or
C) dead in the boot of the car

Churro Monster

10-Apr-2006, 15:13

Well Mark, I was thinking of answer A)
transverse V Twin = Boxer BMW with a bra on ;)

But now that you mention the other scenarios....

Brucey

10-Apr-2006, 16:36

Firstly much apologies to VTR for the high jacking of his thread

Secondly Curtain Girl the CX has met an important criteria it is free / gratis

No more CX500 messages please it really is a 400/4 post

Brucey

20-Apr-2006, 11:21

Hi there VTRElmarco hows it going how did you get on with the head stem bits its back together i hope

VtrElmarco

20-Apr-2006, 11:38

Hey Hey Brucey,

So for the lack of progress in the CB 400/4, but I had battled a case of ebola over the easter break.

There are some updates that I know everyone is dying to find out :roll:

I got the engineering department at work to press the new tapered roler bearings down onto the steering head stem. They did a great job in about 1 minute that would have taken me around an hour to work out and all I had was reassemble the handle bars. Everything went together easy, and the bars move through the sweep effortlessly now. I just hope I have torqued the bearing together hard enough (The C-Spanner was very hard to get some good leverage on).

Backed off some preload on the rear shock, and polished some of the chrome decorative bits.

All handlebars and lights are now mounted in place, and I will put the forks back on over the weekend. I have been delayed in getting the caliper rebuilt but hope to get that done next week, so she should be ridable next weekend.

I can't wait to sneek a little ride to see how she handles with new tires and steering bearings.

That is all. Mark. :grin:

Brucey

20-Apr-2006, 12:13

Hey Mark sorry to hear about the ebola outbreak

glad you sorted the head stem and its coming together just a quick suggestion do not fully torque your headstem until all the front end is assembled ie headlights, wheel , forks etc are all installed whack it on the centrestand and block the front of the engine so the front wheel is about 25 mm off the ground.

Set the bars to dead ahead and then gently push against one end of the bar and let the steering head fall to the stops gravity only if it wacks the stops there to loose if the bars stop at any point before they hit the stops there to tight they should just gently come to rest against the stops amd remember to do them again at 1000 ks after installation as they do tend to loosen up.

Keep up the good fight mate its all fun

VtrElmarco

19-Jun-2006, 10:02

Okay everybody. I have finally got back on top of things after a whirlwind Europe trip. I ordered new hand grips, mirror, and service pack (spark plugs, points :!: , oil and air filter) for the might CB400/4. I used a mob over in the UK (while expensive) they had an amazing list of original Honda spares and gave exeptional shipping service. About a 7-10 days from ordering to door.

This will mostly be installed over the weekend, but I will still have to organise the brake caliper to be fixed.

I have changed plans for this bike and for the moment I will register it with club plates as the bike is over 25 years old now. Awesome (Thanks to the Chairman for this suggestion). This cuts down the requirement for a full road worthy required for registration, but your club secretary still won't sign off on an unsafe bike. She should be pretty good though with new tires, brakes, steering and forks.

So I could be riding here in a few weeks.

VtrElmarco

21-Aug-2006, 14:08

I finally pulled my finger out of my arse and bolted the little CB400/4 back together with the help of the Sith Jester (Tops work mate).

The second hand caliper allowed the brakes to be bled, but it is binding a fair bit, so I will put a brake seal kit through it as soon as I can. I pushed it out the front and tried to start it but got nothing. With the help of a neighbourly jump start, the little red devil slowly coughed to life. I gave her a bit if a rev to clear some crap of the plugs, threw some gear on and took her for a nice little test spin around a quite industrial estate (After a quick lap around the block in only a t-shirt and shorts :lol: ).

What can I say. She steers quick and nimble. Really revs out nicely for a 25 year old bike. There are a few flat spots through the rev range, and she gets a nice little wobble going above 120 (Need to tighten steering head bearings) and the brakes are a bit piss weak. But all things aside I haven't grinned so much on a bike in a while. The rattling noise from the motor dissapears the more you rev it. This could be good, or it could signal a massive and immenent failure. I don't really care though, cause it great fun to work on.

Next steps will be to throw on some of the servicing gear I bought for it, as well as getting a club plate. The brakes need sorting, but thats not a huge job. A major de-greasing will also take place (Watch out little penguins!!)I will have to fashion some sort of seat, as the wooden plank is not so comfy. :lol:

hornet

21-Aug-2006, 14:30

pics when it's presentable, please, many of us oldies have a soft spot for Honda's factory cafe racer.....

typhoon

21-Aug-2006, 15:01

Great to hear of another aircooled four coming back to life!
You will discover the Japanese made very good bikes back in the 70's/80's. Some people knock the whole "UJM" thing but they are all very nice bikes. The ease of and lack of maintenence on an air cooled engine is great too. Just beware that they do get cranky in heavy traffic on hot days.

Regards, Andrew.

VtrElmarco

21-Aug-2006, 15:08

pics when it's presentable, please, many of us oldies have a soft spot for Honda's factory cafe racer.....

I will try to learn how to post them, but only after a REAL good spit and polish.

endless

07-Dec-2006, 06:44

great to hear of another cb400f once mine is finished it would be great to met up havent seen another one on a very long time
here are some pics
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358706/2

VtrElmarco

11-Dec-2006, 17:00

She is SWEET!!

That is one nice example Endless. Mine is a similar colour, but the Chairman had added faux cafe racer handle bars, rearsets and and a single seat modification with a custom front and rear cowl. She could do with a repaint, but that could be further down the track.

I have done a little more work to it recently. Replaced air filter (Yeach!!) and put in new points.

Next step is to run some kits through the carbies cause when I turn the fuel on, number 2 drops it guts all over the exhaust!! Apparantly you can sometimes give them a tap to stop it, but I will pull them apart, clean them and run a kit through just for the project/experience.

I might also need a new battery. And I will give it a massive spit and polish over the chrissy break I think and try to fire her to life again to do an oil change.

I love old Hondas.

endless

12-Dec-2006, 00:26

mine needs some work but its pretty tidy i have one in storage but the guy looking after it has vanished hoping to find it again its in better all round than this one
you might of seen as well i have a benly rebuild going on as well its nearly done to and then i have to start up on another benly 58-59 flat bar in mint condition just needs motor work and a seat and a few bits here and there
and soon i hope i can start on my z50a k2
i wish there were more hours in the day

Gromit

12-Dec-2006, 09:35