View Full Version : Exhaust Noise Testing
roundman58
21-Feb-2005, 14:20
I have been in discussion with EPA Victoria over the past few days regarding the possibility of a noise testing day for motorcyclists.
The gentlemen I have spoken with are enthusiastic and more than happy to help organise this event. They see this as a great media opportunity for themselves, the community and especially motorcyclists. I fully agree with this chance to show motorcyclists doing something positive about their image.
It was made clear that no infringement notices would be issued, nor would records be kept of offending exhausts. An "unofficial" warning will be given to anyone over the decibel limit, and the onus will then be on the owner to correct any problems.
We need to gauge the amount of people interested in this service, as if the numbers are to large and EPA Vic set a limit, a register will be intiated to help things run smoothly.
Currently this service cannot be implementd until May, due to rosters at EPA Vic. Also the venue, MRA HQ needs to be approved by EPA Vic.
As more details come to light I will keep everyone posted.
For those who want to have their exhaust tested sooner, this can be done for $27.50 at the authorised testing stations to be found at http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/Noise/testers.asp .
Shane
scooter
21-Feb-2005, 14:25
Obvious question, WHY????
roundman58
21-Feb-2005, 14:41
Others have suggested that they would like to know the decibel level of their exhaust for personal reasons, some before they venture into NSW. If we can have this happen for no cost to riders, why not?
Thejewishone
21-Feb-2005, 14:42
Obvious question, WHY????
I think not long ago a Netrider (sorry I cant remember who but rides a Silver Harley) was booked by the EPA on his way to coffee night.
So this is a chance to find out if you are over or not.
iwantabiggerbike
21-Feb-2005, 14:50
That was me and i got a free test from Mr EPA and 28 days to fix it.
Not going to coffee night that way any more cost to much for coffee otherwise.
Not going to coffee night that way any more
which way???? :)
scooter
21-Feb-2005, 15:25
Which way to coffee was that?
Did they have a test station set up, or were you just pulled over for a roadworthy?
generally if you have an aftermarket pipe then you know it is most likely going to be over the limit.
I imagine that you would only expect bikes with standard exhausts to front up to a voluntary test station.
What has not been mentioned so far which should cut the line down, strange how certain groups forget important facts!
If you have an 2005 complienced bike you dont need to do the test as your bike falls under a different ADR which basically works on a signature print. I'm sure the MRA can post details of this.
Also certain stock standard unmodified bikes will not pass EPA noise testing, once again i do believe the MRA should post this list to.
With these two points being discussed, many will find there is no need for there bike to be tested. I'm sure though Shane was going to post all these details asap!
Thejewishone
21-Feb-2005, 16:04
Which way to coffee was that?
Did they have a test station set up, or were you just pulled over for a roadworthy?
I am fairly sure it was in Albert Park on the way in and I think it was a testing station.
Groberts knows the full details.
Glen?
If you have an 2005 complienced bike you dont need to do the test as your bike falls under a different ADR which basically works on a signature print.
Sorry Shabby but I have not heard of this one. From what I am led to beleive is that all stock exhaust and after market exhaust systems sold must be labled and comply with the noise test.
A Ducati 999s with a 125db system that is stock is that to loud or is that OK because that is the stock labeled pipe on the bike?
My SV650S has a 89db noise test and I know that mine is well above that with the MADAZ pipe, but I think it is under 100db (or very close). So does that make mine illegal because its over (if it is its only just) the 100db ceiling or because the difference in Label (on the bike from stationary noise test) and actual (stationary noise test) is more than 10%?
This is the problem in NSW and it looks like it's making it to Melbourne quickly.
PS: I will be trying to be first in line to get this done t see exactly where the SV sits.
scooter
21-Feb-2005, 16:12
If groberts posts here today then something has gone terribly wrong
I'd come along if I'm free on the day
exactly why i put that info up Thejewishone, if the 999 is complience 2005 yeah then its fine, if its complienced 2004 then nope wont pass.
Just a shame in the MRA way they leave out the important parts isnt it.
I have been in discussion with EPA Victoria over the past few days regarding the possibility of a noise testing day for motorcyclists.
The gentlemen I have spoken with are enthusiastic and more than happy to help organise this event. They see this as a great media opportunity for themselves, the community and especially motorcyclists. I fully agree with this chance to show motorcyclists doing something positive about their image.
It was made clear that no infringement notices would be issued, nor would records be kept of offending exhausts. An "unofficial" warning will be given to anyone over the decibel limit, and the onus will then be on the owner to correct any problems.
We need to gauge the amount of people interested in this service, as if the numbers are to large and EPA Vic set a limit, a register will be intiated to help things run smoothly.
Currently this service cannot be implementd until May, due to rosters at EPA Vic. Also the venue, MRA HQ needs to be approved by EPA Vic.
As more details come to light I will keep everyone posted.
For those who want to have their exhaust tested sooner, this can be done for $27.50 at the authorised testing stations to be found at http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/Noise/testers.asp .
Shane
As if they will not keep records.
You don't work for the epa or the coppers do you?
No way will I assist any government agency if I don't have to.
matt232
21-Feb-2005, 19:35
I'd be keen to find out how I faired
Do most bikes come with this test? Mine comes with a factory sticker on the frame saying tested and meets noise emission standards of Australia lower than 84.5dB at 4500rpm.
I have been in discussion with EPA Victoria over the past few days regarding the possibility of a noise testing day for motorcyclists.
The gentlemen I have spoken with are enthusiastic and more than happy to help organise this event. They see this as a great media opportunity for themselves, the community and especially motorcyclists. I fully agree with this chance to show motorcyclists doing something positive about their image.
It was made clear that no infringement notices would be issued, nor would records be kept of offending exhausts. An "unofficial" warning will be given to anyone over the decibel limit, and the onus will then be on the owner to correct any problems.
We need to gauge the amount of people interested in this service, as if the numbers are to large and EPA Vic set a limit, a register will be intiated to help things run smoothly.
Currently this service cannot be implementd until May, due to rosters at EPA Vic. Also the venue, MRA HQ needs to be approved by EPA Vic.
As more details come to light I will keep everyone posted.
For those who want to have their exhaust tested sooner, this can be done for $27.50 at the authorised testing stations to be found at http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/Noise/testers.asp .
Shane
As if they will not keep records.
You don't work for the epa or the coppers do you?
No way will I assist any government agency if I don't have to.
I agree with Smee
and i don't need the EPA to tell me my bike makes too much noise... :lol:
If you have an 2005 complienced bike you dont need to do the test as your bike falls under a different ADR which basically works on a signature print. I'm sure the MRA can post details of this.
How many of us ride 2005 complianced bikes? I would venture to guess that it's a minority. Therefore, such a service would be useful to those whose bikes come under the older ADR 39 regs.
Also certain stock standard unmodified bikes will not pass EPA noise testing,
How does this work? What bikes, which are factory standard would fail? And under what rules/law?
And no, I'm going to "ask the MRA". You made the statement, therefore I'd like to hear why you think that this would be the case.
Thing is, if the EPA held such a day, it could also advise riders how the new noise emissions laws work, how we fare if we get pinged in NSW and return to Victoria with a NSW defected bike, and what we have to do to have it rectified, particularly if it already is compliant in Victoria.
I suppose that there are the paranoid amongst us who think that it's a trick to get us to voluntarily submit our bikes to testing, and then cop a $500 fine. To them, here's an idea. Remove your number plates and trailer the bikes to the venue.
Actually Martin i was pointing out the fact that in another post the MRA fails to actually state facts or even ADR rules, they rather spread fear by posting half details and crap.
Major ADR changes for 2005 you asked how many of us ride 2005 complience, does it really matter? The fact the ADR has completely changed and therefore previous models that do not comply all of a sudden do comply. I do believe this point should have been raised.
You also asked what bikes do not make it under pre 2005 ADR, lets see a newsletter you put together had them listed, also now hmmm was also mentioned at 2 MRA QGM's and god knows how many times i have posted the info. Once again this info should have been posted in the original message from Shane.
The fact these two points have been left out, leaves a few questions to be asked, i guess the first is do the MRA or Shane really know what there on about when it comes to the Muffler regs and ADR? i for one do not believe they have any idea.
I can see what Shane is trying to do but I can only say "don't do it"
They will be collecting data to see if it is justifiable to start conducting EPA tests on a more regular basis.
The MRAA should go out and spend $100 and buy itself an audometer and conduct the tests themselves.
thelodger
21-Feb-2005, 22:04
I can see what Shane is trying to do but I can only say "don't do it"
They will be collecting data to see if it is justifiable to start conducting EPA tests on a more regular basis.
The MRAA should go out and spend $100 and buy itself an audometer and conduct the tests themselves.
You are such a cynic Vic..there should be more of us.....
Like shootin' fish in a barrel :shock:
It happened at the Protest ride that was organised that went down to Chelsea.
All the bikes were ushered into a carpark that was not visible from the street and the cops spent their entire time writing non-compliance tickets and sending out EPA noise check notices to riders in the mail.
thelodger
21-Feb-2005, 22:13
How easy do we have to make it for them......Not MRAA bashing here just lookin' at the down side of doing the right thing buy a few people.
You will get pinged somewhere down the track :?
Actually Martin i was pointing out the fact that in another post the MRA fails to actually state facts or even ADR rules, they rather spread fear by posting half details and crap.
Major ADR changes for 2005 you asked how many of us ride 2005 complience, does it really matter? The fact the ADR has completely changed and therefore previous models that do not comply all of a sudden do comply. I do believe this point should have been raised.
You also asked what bikes do not make it under pre 2005 ADR, lets see a newsletter you put together had them listed, also now hmmm was also mentioned at 2 MRA QGM's and god knows how many times i have posted the info. Once again this info should have been posted in the original message from Shane.
The fact these two points have been left out, leaves a few questions to be asked, i guess the first is do the MRA or Shane really know what there on about when it comes to the Muffler regs and ADR? i for one do not believe they have any idea.
What a complete load of crap , If the local state govt enforces an act that decrees the decimal level will be X then thats it won't matter what plates you have, don't want to pay fine go to court will cost more than the ticket, When I spoke to the VIC EPA
I was told there was a legislative change in the wind, they would not inform me as to what, just told me to keep an eye on their web site for the public discussion paper.
As to the ADR facts you have them why not post them geez you are some piece of work
old boy
, :lol:
thelodger
22-Feb-2005, 00:17
Ok I'm just a little bewildered here...lets have the good folk at the EPA test our bikes and issue us with quote 'An "unofficial" warning will be given to anyone over the decibel limit' unquote.
Then Gav drops this little beauty from a conversation with some one at the EPA..quote'When I spoke to the VIC EPA
I was told there was a legislative change in the wind, they would not inform me as to what, just told me to keep an eye on their web site for the public discussion paper.' unquote.
Hmmm let me think on this for a second here....change in legislation ay,loud exausts on bikes...yup that affects me...then I think "unoffical warning/EPA testers....no harm no foul....pffft If you cant see the writing on the wall get your eyes checked. :?
roundman58
22-Feb-2005, 08:16
A free service is being offered. It is your choice whether you use it or not.
No skin off my nose.
thelodger
22-Feb-2005, 08:21
A free service is being offered. It is your choice whether you use it or not.
No skin off my nose.
A free service to whom bike owners or the EPA? :roll:
A free service is being offered. It is your choice whether you use it or not.
No skin off my nose.
I think you have made a grave error in judgement in this case.
It's easy for you to say no skin off your nose when it's stuck up some government's department.
I can't believe you fell for the oldest of ploys.
The Nazi's used to use these tactics to make new policies and also to identify future threats.
Oldest trick in the book and you fell for it.
EPA can kiss my hairy backside!
If the Mraa was serious they would invest in their OWN trsting equipment and conduct the tests NOT provide ammunition for government stooges to develop policy like they have in NSW.
Bond Girl
22-Feb-2005, 12:01
Doubt that my suicide pipes would even rate! Sluglie couldn't hear my bike start after he bump started it for me!
sluglie
22-Feb-2005, 12:27
Doubt that my suicide pipes would even rate! Sluglie couldn't hear my bike start after he bump started it for me!
you had to go and tell the whole bloody world didnt you sue :oops:
Removed_User6
22-Feb-2005, 12:44
you are a cynical lot .
Shane / mraa have arranged for testing so you know whether your pipes are legal or not .
They will not be booking you for it , there is no proof they are collecting data , there is no proof that they are going to do anything with it . all unfounded assumtions
if you want to know what your pipes are , get it tested .
If you are over well you will know (if you dont allready :lol: ) , change it dont change it , its up to you .
but at least you know you have a accurate reading of what they are.
It also will give you a change to ask questions about the rules or adrs etc etc .
lets get of the victim bandwagon .
Craig got pulled up last week at a testing station , he unfortunatley got done , but they were pulling up everyone , so lets let the conspiracy theorys rest as they are not targeting us specifically .
some one goes and offers you a service , I personally think its a great idea , if you dont .... well dont go .....pretty simple , but dont knock the man for actually doing something for motorcyclists , because i havent seen anyone else get of there arses and do it .
It was made clear that no infringement notices would be issued, nor would records be kept of offending exhausts. An "unofficial" warning will be given to anyone over the decibel limit, and the onus will then be on the owner to correct any problems.
Will they also be giving certificates of "within standards" so that if your out riding and a cop stops you to give (or you get in the mail) a notice to have it tested, you can show the certificate and be done with it?
Bond Girl
22-Feb-2005, 13:19
Doubt that my suicide pipes would even rate! Sluglie couldn't hear my bike start after he bump started it for me!
you had to go and tell the whole bloody world didnt you sue :oops:
Hey it's not like I said you were riding it! pmsl!
you are a cynical lot .
Shane / mraa have arranged for testing so you know whether your pipes are legal or not .
They will not be booking you for it , there is no proof they are collecting data , there is no proof that they are going to do anything with it . all unfounded assumtions
if you want to know what your pipes are , get it tested .
If you are over well you will know (if you dont allready :lol: ) , change it dont change it , its up to you .
but at least you know you have a accurate reading of what they are.
It also will give you a change to ask questions about the rules or adrs etc etc .
lets get of the victim bandwagon .
Craig got pulled up last week at a testing station , he unfortunatley got done , but they were pulling up everyone , so lets let the conspiracy theorys rest as they are not targeting us specifically .
some one goes and offers you a service , I personally think its a great idea , if you dont .... well dont go .....pretty simple , but dont knock the man for actually doing something for motorcyclists , because i havent seen anyone else get of there arses and do it .
If the Mra were serious they would be getting their own equipment and do the testing "in house"
We are not cycnical at all.
Have you ever heard of legislation by stealth?
Why give any government department an easy ride?
Now that you are on the fiorestorm don't tell me you will want it to sound like a muffled fart.
If the EPA gets its way that's exactly what they will do.
Cynical?
No
Realistic? indeedely doodlee
Another option is to get all bikes with standard stock pipes to get tested only so that the epa then only get the idea that so called noisy problems are not there.
Go ahead people if you want to bend opver and take it up you know where then do the government aided testing and assiste the EPA draft some sprt of policy.
If not Boycott it and get the MRA or even netrider to set up a private testing scheme without big brother watching the final results.
Removed_User6
22-Feb-2005, 15:45
If the Mra were serious they would be getting their own equipment and do the testing "in house"
We are not cycnical at all.
Have you ever heard of legislation by stealth?
Why give any government department an easy ride?
Now that you are on the fiorestorm don't tell me you will want it to sound like a muffled fart.
If the EPA gets its way that's exactly what they will do.
Cynical?
No
Realistic? indeedely doodlee
I also dont trust the goverment on a lot of issues and dont trust the bueracrats that work in some of these depts.
I have heard of stealth , but I know that this is not the case here.
I placed up a post about one of our riders (craig) who got done on the way to coffee a few weeks back on the mraa forum , after a few posts and input from others the suggestion was made about haveing testing either on a spanner day or a seperate day for testing , shane contacted them and asked about testing bikes and this was the outcome .
so now do you really think that is is a plot from the EPA to other throw motorcyclist now you know where and how this eventuated ?
personally , i love the sound of the VTR with after market cans , but I dont have $500 everytime i would get pinged , due to the times i travel to work and the way i travel i get pulled over regulary , at least 1 per fortnight , so i am leaving the cans just the way they are.
The VTR even with manafacturers pipes on is loud enough .
I'm with smee and others on this.
If we want to find out how loud our bikes are and whether or not they comply, then we can each chuck a couple of bucks into the hat and buy a noisemeter. Happy to do it.
While I'm sure the EPA won't be writing tickets for non-compliant bikes on the day, what they're getting from the arrangement is data that can be used as they see fit.
Now unless every single bike tested is within legal limits, they will walk away with data showing that a certain percentage of bikes are illegal. It hardly matters how small this percentage is, or whether the bikes tested were a representative sample of all bikes on the road - the data can be used to justify a NSW-style campaign against "loud motorcycles".
The advantage to riders of giving this information to the EPA is what exactly?
Bad move, guys.
scooter
22-Feb-2005, 16:15
I get pulled over from time to time, with aftermarket pipe, and it never get's mentioned, it's ussually "G nice bike mate" or some such.
I guess it's all in the initial greeting/eye contact?
Now unless every single bike tested is within legal limits, they will walk away with data showing that a certain percentage of bikes are illegal. It hardly matters how small this percentage is, or whether the bikes tested were a representative sample of all bikes on the road - the data can be used to justify a NSW-style campaign against "loud motorcycles".
Don't you think they would get the above statistics from their roadside testing stations that they setup every now and again, without needing special arrangements.
Removed_User6
22-Feb-2005, 16:44
While I'm sure the EPA won't be writing tickets for non-compliant bikes on the day, what they're getting from the arrangement is data that can be used as they see fit.
no records will be kept.
We all know that a majority of people who are there will have after market pipes.
I know its not the right enalligy , but I look at it as like the amnesty
you can check and you dont get into trouble , then its up to you what you choose to do .
raffiki
22-Feb-2005, 16:51
i think mine is within the limits but better to be safe than sorry so count me in
no records will be kept.
We all know that a majority of people who are there will have after market pipes.
I know its not the right enalligy , but I look at it as like the amnesty
you can check and you dont get into trouble , then its up to you what you choose to do .
ok so lets say i lob with my 3 month 2004 complienced ZX10R, with stock standard pipes now we know the outcome of that's gonna be and your telling me to trust the EPA :lol: :lol: funny man!
Especially after the MRAA organises this but also does not inform anybody of the bikes that stock standard do not meet the old complience :lol:
Yeah as an idea it's good i raised this as an MRA idea early last year but there was no way i was going through the EPA for the simple fact they wished to collate "information" from the event, instead i was going to go through an independant tester and give such the advertising for the day.
EPA are after one thing only and it seems the MRA is supporting them.
Don't you think they would get the above statistics from their roadside testing stations that they setup every now and again, without needing special arrangements.
Sure, but will they? I don't see why we should be going out of our way to raise the profile of this "issue" with them.
Glen, do you trust them that they will not collate data?
Did you trust Steve Bracks when he said no more WRB?
When they said that front number plates were dead in the water, did you trust them then?
I'm not attacking the MRAA nor am I attacking Shane for doing this. What I am doing is voicing my opinion and I think that the idea is just plain stupid.
Why lead the troops to the slaughter?
I'm not attacking the MRAA nor am I attacking Shane for doing this.
WELL I AM GOING TO
They see this as a great media opportunity for themselves, the community and especially motorcyclists. I fully agree with this chance to show motorcyclists doing something positive about their image.
This sort of crap really gets up my nose. The "lets show the community that we are goodie good two shoes bullsh%t". WHY is the MRA talking crap like this. WHY are thay saying its a good opportunity to show the community that we are docile softc^rks for. I did not know we had an ongoing continual image problem. I suppose if the MRA keep on saying we have a problem then it MUST be true. GIVE IT A BLOODY REST. Get out and smell the Bullsh%t you are serving up. If you keep on thinking negetive thoughts, then thats always the way its going to be. You MRA folk really do have a "My glass is half empty view" :evil: :evil: :evil:
I believe we have a good image within the community....................WHO ELSE AGREES
As pointed out, why feed the circling shark.
I have heard of stealth , but I know that this is not the case here.
Sorry Glen but how can YOU make a comment like that. What proof do you have. Mate you must live in a bubble if you firmly believe that nothing will be spoken back at EPA HQ about the day. Sure thay may not take records on the day, but they cannot remove the observations they recieve from the day. Could a possible scenario go something like this..........Epa tester is asked by boss.....
(BOSS) How did it go ?
(WORKER) Yeah good, no probs, about 75% of the bikes were not complient.
(BOSS) Jeez that much, oh well I hope they do something about it, with the unofficial warning.
(Worker) Yep.
Then the boss has a meeting a couple of weeks later with the cops/stroking politicians.....nothing special, just a routine scheduled monthly meeting. The cops and the stroking politicians were fully aware of the day and asked how did the day go.
(BOSS) Yep no probs, had a good turn out, 75% of the bikes did not complie the boys thought, as there were no records being kept, they cant say for sure.
(Stroking Politician) MMMM this sounds like a good MONEY REVENUE RAISER lets do MORE BLITZ'S. :roll: :wink: :P
I know this is a VERY CYNICAL VIEWPOINT, but hey, who else tends to agree.................................
I have a suggestion to the MRA. Why dont you go and buy this unit as Vic has suggested. That way you can go back to your members and say, hey this is what we have done............At least then the 20 - 30 odd members that you have can see that you have done SOMETHING FOR ONCE, instead of sitting on your bums scratching the pimples and blackheads off. Just a thought........could be a good P.R. thing for your members, for GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT ELSE YOU HAVE DONE IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. And this way you dont need to involve the Government.
scooter
22-Feb-2005, 22:45
Well they could always organise as many riders as possible to get together and ride around with stupidly huge fluffy animals strapped to their bikes, so passersby can stare and say things like look at those dickheads.
No wait, I think they may have already done that.
Removed_User6
23-Feb-2005, 07:59
I have heard of stealth , but I know that this is not the case here.
Sorry Glen but how can YOU make a comment like that. What proof do you have. Mate you must live in a bubble if you firmly believe that nothing will be spoken back at EPA HQ about the day. Sure thay may not take records on the day, but they cannot remove the observations they recieve from the day.
I see your point as well as vics but
1. as i said previously , i know how this came about and where it originated from so there was no plan from the epa to do anything .
2. On a testing day I would recon that 75%+ bikes that get tested will have ultered or aftermarket pipes , this is the target audiance for testing , to tell people who want to know if they are legal or not what there reading are .
Like on gun amnestys , its not law abiding citizens they are utilising the chance to hand guns in it the ones who need that opertunity ( i know its not a good example but you know what i mean)
3. it gives you a guide , you might have done a baffelectomy or your exshaust is getting a bit old and want to know what level it is .
It might just save you $500.
4. The EPA and Vic roads and all those other depts , when they want to do something they allready have the stats , there bodgy figures and there justifactions before it is even made away to the general public , so this will be nothing for them .
5. it will also give motorcyclists ammo as well , if you have a new bike and its over because thats the way there manafacturered then that can be used by us to say how can you set the level ar xxDb when with stock standard pipes they come at this xxDb .
Personally I feel that it is a service that you can utilise ( if you want) and it might save someone $500 it is worth it , as for stats and hidden agenda's , it is all assumption .
They have started cracking down on all vechicles , take last friday fortnight when craig got done , so they are allready out there doing it .
also you never know this may give a oppertunity for the mraa to put forward the case of bikes with the epa .
just my 2c worth
Kez Across
23-Feb-2005, 08:26
Well obviously, if you care enough to want to stay within the law you would get your bike tested if you weren't sure.
What good would it do, for the MRA to do their own testing?
Half the riders that want to stay within the law, would do something about it if the bike tested too loud - No different to getting the EPA to do the test!
The other half would simply have an accurate Bragging Right :roll:
Give it up you lot - Either you want to have a Legal bike, or you don't give a stuff & will cop it if you get caught.
If you're all so convinced that the EPA will start testing because a large number of bikes tested over the limit, then get off your backsides & make sure your bike is LEGAL and you won't have anything to worry about.
:evil:
actually Kez how about instead of worrying wether or not your bike is legal the MRA actually does some lobbying and get the bikes that come out of the factory stock standard leagalised. Now from memory and i still am waiting for the MRA to post this list there are 10 bikes that do not make the noise limits.
This is my issue they organise something with the EPA where as last year the EPA were out for all they could get, and the MRA will not publish details of pre 2005 complienced bikes that do not make noise regs and will not publish details of the new 2005 ADR's.
yeah i trust the MRAA....Not!
Well personally i KNOW my bike is over the limit but i dont give a rats and will cope any fine i get !!
A moderately noisey bike is a HEARD bike and gives the cages just that little extra senceory imput, to perhapes look and see where that noise is !!
"i didn't see yah mate but i heard you"
so think about that as well , but i do agree some bikes are way over the limit and should be quieted down some
Bob
I cant believe I never got done on the SP1. 127db of v-twin goodness :)
Well obviously, if you care enough to want to stay within the law you would get your bike tested if you weren't sure.
What good would it do, for the MRA to do their own testing?
Half the riders that want to stay within the law, would do something about it if the bike tested too loud - No different to getting the EPA to do the test!
The other half would simply have an accurate Bragging Right :roll:
Give it up you lot - Either you want to have a Legal bike, or you don't give a stuff & will cop it if you get caught.
If you're all so convinced that the EPA will start testing because a large number of bikes tested over the limit, then get off your backsides & make sure your bike is LEGAL and you won't have anything to worry about.
:evil:
When you ride a bike that sounds like a bike not like a whining sewing machine and notice cars moving over and paying attention because you can be heard come back to us.
Don't feed us that "bike within the law" crap we aint schoolkids.
Commonsense rather than stupid laws please.
The mra should test without the oversight of the epa for the reasons applied here ad nauseum.
If you like big brother overseeing you then be my guest just don't expect the "older heads" in here to agree with your rather naive posting.
(don't take it personally I aint having a go at you but having ridden for years I can smell a rat a million miles off)
That rat is your gerbil Nick. :lol: :lol:
That rat is your gerbil Nick. :lol: :lol:
Pffffft~~~~~~
:P
fred_kroft
23-Feb-2005, 14:46
Like death, I'm only going to worry about it when it happens.
(who here worrys about death ??)
The police would do away with private transport if it was
up to them (much like they did with those guns). Owning
our own vehicles is a liability, specially motorcycles.
Speed compliance, alcohol compliance, now noise testing.
What next ? Psychological profile testing ?
In a few years time, when fuel costs $10 a litre, It won't matter
anyway. The gixxer will probably be my last petrol bike.
Enjoy your bike while you can ;)
When you ride a bike that sounds like a bike not like a whining sewing machine and notice cars moving over and paying attention because you can be heard come back to us.
Yep, very true. Its like parting the red sea, gotta love loud pipes 8)
Cheers 8)
scooter
23-Feb-2005, 17:46
Nothing like giving them a bark with the rev limiter, instant action.
Actually Martin i was pointing out the fact that in another post the MRA fails to actually state facts or even ADR rules, they rather spread fear by posting half details and crap.
Maybe I'm illiterate. But I read that message to state that they wish to offer a testing day where riders who WISH TO DO SO, may get their bikes tested for noise emission levels, and if over the limit, then they'll be advised.
There was nothing about ADRs, what bikes may or may not comply, etc..
Perhaps that can be addressed at the testing day. People can then get the lowdown on what's legal, and what's not, and the changes in the laws as pertaining to Victorian motorcycles.
Major ADR changes for 2005 you asked how many of us ride 2005 complience, does it really matter?
Yes, of course it does. You're stating that ADRs for 2005 are different. If so, in what way? Remember, YOU have made the statement, YOU get to explain why.
Most of us ride bikes that comply with the current ADR 39.
The fact the ADR has completely changed and therefore previous models that do not comply all of a sudden do comply. I do believe this point should have been raised.
Again, you made this statement. All it's done is to raise more questions. Why do bikes that you allege do not comply, suddenly comply?
Remember for a bike to be allowed to be sold in Australia, it has to comply with ADRs. If the ADRs change, then that only applies to bikes sold after that point. ADRs are not retrospective. If this was the case, then any vehicle that doesn't meet current ADRs for say, 2004 vehicles, would be illegal.
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Removed_User6
23-Feb-2005, 20:31
Additional text from this point removed by moderator - take it to email
bugger , just missed it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Additional text from this point removed by moderator - take it to email
bugger , just missed it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It was juicy but I aint telling unless you ride with your underpants on your helmet
:-) :D
Additional text from this point removed by moderator - take it to email
bugger , just missed it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It was juicy but I aint telling unless you ride with your underpants on your helmet
:-) :D
ok fine i'll do it now email me the info :lol: :lol:
Anyways Martin to respond is simple, i did raise points that raised questions but these questions i have raised also should have been sumerised in Shanes original post.
Simply the MRAA know this information and by rights should be informing all the general public of it as we did for the first half of last year and as every other MRA in other states is doing now.
Last point to your responce, most of us ride bikes that comply with ADR39, well most of us at least on this forum alone there are 19 do not ride bikes that go under ADR39. Now as this is an issue why isnt the MRAA informing members of the new rules? 11 of the 19 are MRA members!
It seems typical of the MRAA not to share info with Members and Non Members, guess some of us have issues with the dribble that does come
Removed_User6
23-Feb-2005, 22:43
It seems typical of the MRAA not to share info with Members and Non Members, guess some of us have issues with the dribble that does come
Well I have been to :
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/noise/motorcyclemuffler.htm
and
MCoNSW (who are leading up the fight on this cause)
also
VMAC
also
EPA
now none of these sites list motorcycles which do not comply with ADR's
It talks about after market pipes , but doesnt list and manafacturers or new bikes either .
Where is this List ?
surely the above people would list them if the list exsisted ?
If not why wouldnt they ?
Do you have this list?
if so why havent you put it up?
Where is this List ?
surely the above people would list them if the list exsisted ?
If not why wouldnt they ?
Do you have this list?
if so why havent you put it up?
always makes me larf how the MRA new instead of sharing attack instead. But then .........
Where is the list? the list was put together as stated at the 1st MRA QGM by Guy Stanford.........oops did i list a name
surely the above people would list them if the list exsisted ? Why they have never shared anything to date now have they, all the MRAA and cronies seem to do is attack everyone like a pack of Donkeys.
If not why wouldnt they ? no your right the MRA is a secret society, i know the handshake was changed after i stood down!
Do you have this list? hmmmm thought i already answered that, hmmm and discussed it at many board meetings where the bikes were discussed, at QGM's, Friday Coffee nights and almost any other chance i had.....oh yeah and with you Glen!
if so why havent you put it up? But this thread was started by Shane as it seemed on behalf of the MRA....then with his post about noise polution then should'nt Shane on behalf of the MRA have posted all relevent information so as ppl did not jump to conclusions as has happened.
Anything else?
Removed_User6
23-Feb-2005, 23:05
I havent been able to find this list anywhere .
If a list did exist then wouldnt they be usiing it in the battle against the new laws ?
It would be benifical for all lobbys to publish this list as it will add strength to there case?
My intrest in this is to see which bikes are on the list .
how much good would it do to fully advertise the list of all bikes that stock standard out of the crate dont make pre 2005 complience ADR's??
Plus you do know most of the bikes as even you have put up posts about stock bikes being pings in NSW :)
Removed_User6
23-Feb-2005, 23:40
how much good would it do to fully advertise the list of all bikes that stock standard out of the crate dont make pre 2005 complience ADR's??
Plus you do know most of the bikes as even you have put up posts about stock bikes being pings in NSW :)
regardless what i do or dont know has no relevance , it isnt about me .
1. You mentioned this so called list .
2. you stated that the mraa and MCoNsw etc are with holding it
3. you stated it was minuted in the first meeting , Which meeting and where ?
4. you infered that you have a copy of it.
If this is the case , back your comments with the list .
simple
Why they have never shared anything to date now have they, all the MRAA and cronies seem to do is attack everyone like a pack of Donkeys.
no your right the MRA is a secret society, i know the handshake was changed after i stood down!
You know, I look at all the crap that Brian sprukes and can only laugh.
He did the exact same thing when he held the presidents cap, even went as far as threaten people with legal action when he knew damn well he was in the wrong. (yes Brain, in the end I won!!)
It's not often I agree with what Glen sprukes either, but this time round......
If there is a list, bloody well list it. You claim the MRAA is witholding information yet you do the exact same thing, do you think have any credibility??
actually Vic i did what was required to be done at the time but as for information that i did share around unlike what they have done since i stood down.
And as for threats hmmm one only needs to look back at emails from someone else as for credibilitiy how do you think you will stand if that comes out?
Glen i'm sick of you childish antics you know the bikes you've discusses them netside before. Stop making out you have not.
P.S. i have found the post to back that up to :)
Removed_User6
24-Feb-2005, 08:13
Glen i'm sick of you childish antics you know the bikes you've discusses them netside before. Stop making out you have not.
P.S. i have found the post to back that up to :)
I do not remember discussing a list of bikes that would be banned under adrs with you or anyone.
I do remember arguing on twincams about my exshaust.(bafflectomy) as for conversations at coffee night, i dont remember discussing any lists .
if you have it place it up , if you dont tell me where i can get it , otherwise retract your comments on the previous posts .
I am all for having a say , but if you are going to make allegations or aqusations against , a person or a group , back them up with facts.
I cant believe I never got done on the SP1. 127db of v-twin goodness :)
Have to agree there. We went away last weekend on a 3 day ride to Tintaldra, Merimbula and home. A mate has a VTR1000. We swapped bikes for the Reefton section. It's the first time that I've ridden a V twin, and anything that closely resembles a sports bike. I can understand why people, when they get a V twin, they are hooked for life.
They sound as torquey and musclely as they feel. Another mate has a Ducati ST4. It sounds OK, even with standard mufflers. As a sports tourer kinda guy, I'd love a VTR bike in sports touring guise.
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bugger , just missed it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes, censorship is somewhat annoying. "Shabby" seems to have unfettered liberty to attack the MRA at will. But if someone wants the right of reply, then that's another matter.
Pity.
Additional text from this point removed by moderator - take it to email
bugger , just missed it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes, censorship is somewhat annoying. "Shabby" seems to have unfettered liberty to attack the MRA at will. But if someone wants the right of reply, then that's another matter.
Pity.
You made your attack personal that's why it was moderated.
I did read it before it was edited.
shabby wrote:
It seems typical of the MRAA not to share info with Members and Non Members, guess some of us have issues with the dribble that does come
Funny this, I've been to every board meeting for several months and I've never heard of this secret list! Shabby must hear about this at his secret meetings in the phone booth with all his mates :lol: :lol:
Why do I think that the only drivel (dribble is what drools out of Shabby's mouth :roll: ) comes from one person here.
As for the MRA doing it's own testing! To hire someone in would be very expensive! I've had to hire sound monitoring people to monitor workplace noise for OH&S & it ain't cheap. Particularly since it would be out of office hours so that riders could get there. As for buying your own equipment - there's a lot more involved. The equipment must be properly calibrated and located etc. etc.
If you don't want to take part, you don't have to. There's no limitation on whether you're a member or a non-menber of the MRAA and there's no conspiracy about any of this! :shock:
TonyE
With regards to this "list" of non-complying bikes, the only one that I've heard about was a rider in NSW who got pinged by the EPA up there for having non complying labeling on a brand new bike. It was either a Kawasaki ZX-10 or a ZX-12R. Apparently the label is hidden under the tank, instead of being displayed in a "prominent" place.
I can't understand how a bike which is landed in Australia, can be non-complying, (despite having a compliance plate rivetted to the frame) and yet still be able to be registered.
Now, the ADRs pertaining to noise have changed between 2004 and previous, and 2005. I don't know the details, just that there is some "signature" involved. DOTARS lists the ADRs but no detail. You have to pay to get that info.
So, as far as I'm aware, a bike if it complies with ADRs in say, 1995, is still compliant when those ADRs are superceded. ADR 27a, (exhaust gas emissions) was introduced for 1976. It's been superceded (doesn't even exist now). Other ADRs look after vehicle emissions. So, that doesn't mean that HQ Holdens, which are pre-ADR 27a, or HX Holdens, which were ADR 27a, are now illegal or non-complying, because the ADR requirements are much tighter. Same for vehicles which run on leaded fuel.
Brian's assertion that there are bikes, legally landed in Oz, that don't comply makes no sense at all.
All he has to do is to demonstrate why they don't comply, referencing the relevant ADRs, regulations, etc., and the states where they are illegal. And then show why a bike which will have a compliance plate fitted to it is not legal.
Oh, and a list of these alleged non-complyers would be nice too. I might be in the market for a new bike soon, so it'd be nice to know that whatever bike I get won't be put off the road.
As for the MRA doing it's own testing! To hire someone in would be very expensive! I've had to hire sound monitoring people to monitor workplace noise for OH&S & it ain't cheap. Particularly since it would be out of office hours so that riders could get there. As for buying your own equipment - there's a lot more involved. The equipment must be properly calibrated and located etc. etc.
If you don't want to take part, you don't have to. There's no limitation on whether you're a member or a non-menber of the MRAA and there's no conspiracy about any of this! :shock:
TonyE
So the mra has no one with any skills to calibrate a sound testing machine?
The equipment isn't that expensive.
Stop feeding us crapola we aint stupid.
If you want to get the government involved with your sound testingf then go right ahead do it.
But when they start changing laws because you were all foolishly led to believe this was an altruistic act on behalf of the epa you are sadly deluded.
So the mra has no one with any skills to calibrate a sound testing machine?
The equipment isn't that expensive.
Have you any idea what's involved? Obviously not...
Since it's so easy to do, then why is there a requirement for the calibrator to be registered with the National Association of Testing Authorities (NATA) as an acoustic calibration laboratory if it is to stand up in court?
The Motorcycle Council of NSW carried out its own tests as below...
"We hired high quality test equipment that meets the necessary standards and guidelines as laid down in the appropriate test methods as required under legislation. We utilised sound engineers with NATA accreditation to check that we were in accordance with the methodology and train our test people. Our test operators were experienced laboratory personnel, accustomed to handling test equipment. We had a crew of 4 testing personnel, 3 data collection personnel and many marshals to ensure orderly conduct. We tested 124 motorcycles over 6 hours."
Have a look at http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/cgi-bin/printable.pl?id=86
for their findings. I suspect that we'll find some similar interesting results.
TonyE
From my understanding all the EPA does is a basic dbA check - they do not do frequency spectrums etc. A basic meter from dick smith will cost about $50 (see here (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/421d192a044841a62740c0a87f9c0690/Product/View/Q1461) Accuracy: +⁄- 2db). Yes these will loose calibration over time, and yes it can cost to re-callibrate. However, at this cost it is cheap just to buy a new one. For example - the ones that I use in lectures will be out by 5 db every 2-3 years. These are used infrequently - perhaps 10 times a year. If you needed frequency spectrum, then you are looking towards a couple of thousand for an appropriate device (but as I said this is not required).
From my understanding, the test requires a bike to rev to 50% of redline, and the measurement is taken a few feet behind the muffler. (From teh pic above the testing occurs a few feet behind and to the right of the bike)
p.s. in that NSW article the audiometer used is a very basic digital one. The only particulars that I am unable to figure out is if the testing is done on peak (instantaneous) sound level, short term sound level, or long term sound level.
As it seems beyond there ability Martin and Glen maybe you should check the MRA Sept 2004 newsletter, you know the one Martin put together and Martin and i talked about the article in detail before publication.........There you will find the startings of a list of bikes that do not make ADR39/00 oh yeah Martin thats ADR39/00 not the other rule ADR39 as you have stated!
Once again it seems as though the assistants and the MRA board have either failed in there duty or LIED!
So the mra has no one with any skills to calibrate a sound testing machine?
The equipment isn't that expensive.
Have you any idea what's involved? Obviously not...
Since it's so easy to do, then why is there a requirement for the calibrator to be registered with the National Association of Testing Authorities (NATA) as an acoustic calibration laboratory if it is to stand up in court?
The Motorcycle Council of NSW carried out its own tests as below...
"We hired high quality test equipment that meets the necessary standards and guidelines as laid down in the appropriate test methods as required under legislation. We utilised sound engineers with NATA accreditation to check that we were in accordance with the methodology and train our test people. Our test operators were experienced laboratory personnel, accustomed to handling test equipment. We had a crew of 4 testing personnel, 3 data collection personnel and many marshals to ensure orderly conduct. We tested 124 motorcycles over 6 hours."
Have a look at http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/cgi-bin/printable.pl?id=86
for their findings. I suspect that we'll find some similar interesting results.
TonyE
Who said anyhting about court?
Isn't the whole point of this to see if your bike is loud or not?
Why go to great expense to do it?
So long as you have adequate testing equipment then you can test and see how loud your bike is for yourself.
How hard is that?
Why do you need a government agency involved?
They will only be involved if you were pi9cked up by them and tested by them and only then will it become a legal matter.
I'l say it again.
With some cheap testing equipment one can test their bike's loudness so that you get an idea of how loud your machine is
If you want a complete test then sure, go to an official testing station and do it properly.
Why get the EPA involved when they will have a secret agenda?
I bet some senior beaurocrats are rubbing their hands with glee because they are already drafting policy and with YOUR help they will have it finalised.
Well done MRA you stood back and did nothing about the $50, You stood back and did nothing about wrb and now you are assisting a government agency draft new policies regarding bikes and noise levels like their NSW counterparts.
Puhleeease spare me the "no conspiracy" Bullshit
As it seems beyond there ability Martin and Glen maybe you should check the MRA Sept 2004 newsletter, you know the one Martin put together and Martin and i talked about the article in detail before publication.........There you will find the startings of a list of bikes that do not make ADR39/00 oh yeah Martin thats ADR39/00 not the other rule ADR39 as you have stated!
Once again it seems as though the assistants and the MRA board have either failed in there duty or LIED!
Another piece of crap from...
The only reference is from an article by Guy Stanford.
I quote:
"The consequence is that we are now
seeing bikes hit the street that comply
with ADR 83/00, but have a Stationary
Noise Test that exceeds 94dB(A). e.g.
almost all new Harleys and Buells,
Kawasaki ZX-10."
This is not a "list of bikes"...
While I have a good deal of respect for Guy, a quote from an article of his is NOT exactly a definitive list...
never said it was a list but if you wish why not email him for the exact list of bikes that do not make ADR's
now is that to hard to think of? or am i still going to fast for you lot?
nearlyempty
24-Feb-2005, 11:41
I've been following this thread, firstly with a little curiosity, then with a little interest and more recently with amusement after the posting by Shabby and the subsequent degeneration to what - very nearly - became a slanging match.
I've got to say that I agree with everything that mjt57 said above. If you have something to say, say it by all means but for what you are saying to be worthwhile, support it with some evidence. Without this, the point you are trying to make is worse than ... pointless.
What's that saying? "There is absolutely no evidence to support this .... but it's a FACT!"
Oh, and my miserably pathetic view on the exhaust testing business? I am sorry to say that in my few short years on this earth, I, too have turned into a wretched scynical mouldy old toad and am more than a little sceptical of these kinds of things, so no thanks. In the absence of any "list" I don't see the point (even if there was a list I'd probably just forward the problem back up the chain to the dealer/ manufacturer to sort out).
But anyway, when I do get an aftermarket exhaust fitted, no amount of testing will EVER make it legal.
nearlyempty
24-Feb-2005, 11:45
Oops! Spelt "Cynical" wrong. You can, therefore, add uneducated, pathetic and worthless to the above post.
never said it was a list but if you wish why not email him for the exact list of bikes that do not make ADR's
now is that to hard to think of? or am i still going to fast for you lot?
"There you will find the startings of a list of bikes"
That seems pretty clear to me...
By the way http://tinyurl.com/64hlj gives you the details of ADR 83/00
Removed_User6
24-Feb-2005, 12:18
never said it was a list but if you wish why not email him for the exact list of bikes that do not make ADR's
now is that to hard to think of? or am i still going to fast for you lot?
make up your mind brian
that is not a list of 20 bikes !
Thats is pure genrilasation, you are sitting back there slinging musd , and when it comes too putting up the proof , Nothing .... more slinging .
it seems your greivance with the mra , has gotten the better of you .
more facts , less emotion .
when did i ever say list of 20 bikes Glen, but then i guess your senses are slipping due now to the recent surgical removal of the Across :)
i did say start and the other avenues were mentioned also implicated was all involved with the MRA, maybe they should publish all information they have and the work they have done with South Aus and Queensland in regards to Noise and EPA, or is this something else they did not continue with?
As it seems beyond there ability Martin and Glen maybe you should check the MRA Sept 2004 newsletter, you know the one Martin put together and Martin and i talked about the article in detail before publication.........There you will find the startings of a list of bikes that do not make ADR39/00 oh yeah Martin thats ADR39/00 not the other rule ADR39 as you have stated!
This is what you wrote(in part) in the Sept 04 MRA Newsletter article regarding the new ADR:
The new ADR 83/00 will be effective as of 1st January 2005
Has a lower limit on the drive-by test than the earlier ADR 39/00.
This limit is reduced to 80dB(A) and that is a BIG difference, especially for a motorcycle. The requirement for an upper limit on the Stationary Noise Test has been removed in ADR 83/00, as the trade off by makers on being able to reduce the drive-by test.
The consequence is that we are now seeing bikes hit the street that comply with ADR 83/00, but have a Stationary Noise Test that exceeds 94dB(A). e.g. almost all new Harleys and Buells, Kawasaki ZX-10.
In NSW, riders of these bikes are being fined for exceeding the State in-service Regulation of 94dB(A) and the motorcycle is issued with a Defective Vehicle Notice. These are bog stock original machines, no aftermarket pipe stuff here. In one case, within hours of taking delivery.
If this is true, then the NSW regs are contradictory to the ADR requirements for new bikes. Now, perhaps this is an issue that should be dealt with by the Federal Government's Dept. of Transport/ATSB, or whoever has jurisdiction.
This is a similar thing to the speedo accuracy requirements in the ADRs and the tolerance that Victoria Police allows for exceeding speed limits. While the two aren't directly related (it's like the Feds imposing a national 100 km/h limit and Vic imposes a 90 km/h limit within its borders) there appears to be a conflict in the regulations. Normally, fed law overrides state law when similar laws conflict. But with the NSW scenario, it appears that it's merely applying a tighter criteria.
With a bit of luck, the MCCofNSW will be able to sort this out.
I've been in touch with Guy Stanford in recent times. I had corresponded with the NSW EPA and RTA. I asked how their new noise laws worked, and the labelling requirements. I then asked how it would impact me with regards to Victorian requirements.
They couldn't give a clear answer.
Guy now has all related corro in his position. He's told me that he is getting some "mileage" out of it all. Hopefully it will result in a favorable decision on motorcyclists' part to make these laws conform with all states and with the ADR requirements.
And as for threats hmmm one only needs to look back at emails from someone else as for credibilitiy how do you think you will stand if that comes out?
What are you referring to?
If it is the Toy Run website then I'll gladly post all the emails that you sent me.
scooter
24-Feb-2005, 14:09
Vic you are technically ineligable to participate in a cat fight until you agree to grow some hair.
Vic you are technically ineligable to participate in a cat fight until you agree to grow some hair.
He has got hair,
it's just not on his head... :lol: :lol:
thelodger
24-Feb-2005, 15:10
:shock: Maybe the EPA would be interested in some of this "musd" that Glen is talking about!! :P
Removed_User6
24-Feb-2005, 16:34
when did i ever say list of 20 bikes Glen, but then i guess your senses are slipping due now to the recent surgical removal of the Across :)
Now from memory and i still am waiting for the MRA to post this list there are 10 bikes that do not make the noise limits.
Last point to your responce, most of us ride bikes that comply with ADR39, well most of us at least on this forum alone there are 19 do not ride bikes that go under ADR39. Now as this is an issue why isnt the MRAA informing members of the new rules? 11 of the 19 are MRA members!
]Where is the list
the list was put together as stated at the 1st MRA QGM by Guy Stanford.........oops did i list a name
how much good would it do to fully advertise the list of all bikes that stock standard out of the crate dont make pre 2005 complience ADR's??
There you will find the startings of a list of bikes that do not make ADR39/00
never said it was a list but if you wish why not email him for the exact list of bikes that do not make ADR's
now is that to hard to think of? or am i still going to fast for you lot?
Maybe not twenty , but lets look at it
"There is a list that you shared when you were president of the mraa, now you are not president you are slagging off them (the mraa) for not sharing a list that you constantly refer to but doesnt really exist but if you want a copy of the list you need to see guy as he has the llist that doesnt exist that you were notifying people off by doing the right thing but cant produce the list but can produce some crap generilzing that the 2 brands of bikes and a zx10 ."
word games brian , thats all it is . :)
Will the EPA measure how loud my farts are if I rock up on the day 8)
or is there a ADR on them too, the way we have to be politically correct these days.
Cheers 8)
Removed_User6
25-Feb-2005, 01:29
Will the EPA measure how loud my farts are if I rock up on the day 8)
or is there a ADR on them too, the way we have to be politically correct these days.
Cheers 8)
Can you imagine testing some here on the site , they are that full of shit that it could get real messy :lol: :lol:
MrFerret
25-Feb-2005, 01:36
Maybe we could all grab ourselves a mix of some "loud" pipes and form a "Netrider Musical Troupe" .. at coffee nights on Fridays we could all drop our dacks and fart down the pipes (Madaz etc) in unison to the tune of "Top Gun" or similar .. maybe raise a few bucks for the "kitty" to cover "political lobbying costs" .... just a thought ... it won't win friends at the EPA re noxious gas emissions but would sure entertain the Southbank crowd ..... :shock: :roll:
MrFerret
25-Feb-2005, 02:16
The boys could do baritone and the gals falsetto .. I'll stop there or I may earn my first warning woohoo :shock:
Will the EPA measure how loud my farts are if I rock up on the day 8)
Farts would come under emissions testing 8) 8) :x
This is just noise...
scooter
25-Feb-2005, 14:16
OK own up, who has been hanging around the Virgin Blue terminal of late?
OK own up, who has been hanging around the Virgin Blue terminal of late?
OK, who's got a 2-stroke here? :lol:
matt232
25-Sep-2005, 18:04
At the risk of starting this shit fight again. Anyone else going to go to the MRA exhaust testing this saturday before heading to the spanner day?
You are asking for trouble sonny.
:)
matt232
25-Sep-2005, 18:23
let the games begin.....da da daadaa da da dar
I dont trust anything to do with government remember never gst remember no tolls and now shoot to kill rules probably got a guy in the bushes takin numbers look out it could be little johnny and bracksy havin a private bush party
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