View Full Version : Front number plates....again....
From the Netrider list....
I saw an interesting tender for VicRoads in the Herald Sun today and have
just found it on the VicRoads website. It sounds like the front number
plates might be back on the agenda and it seems like they might be about to start trialling some. The details of the tender are:
Contract No: 6198
Contract Type: Request for Tender
Title: Testing Motorcycle Numberplate Decals
Closing Date: 09/03/2005
Advertised Date: 09/02/2005
Description:
Testing of motor cycle number plate decals for application and retention
characteristics along with readability following accelerated weathering
routines consisting of exposure to UV, salt spray, high pressure water and
grit impact in addition to thermal cycling. Testing facilities are required
to have NATA, ISO or another international testing facility accreditation or
ISO 9000 series certification.
having seen it
I will add (from the Vicroads site)
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrne/tenconin.nsf/webAdContractNo
and look down the list of tenders.....
cheers
I see from the same site that Vicroads is also looking for tenders to do a survey on the number of unregistered vehicles travelling on Victoria's roads. Now it might just be me but shouldn't Vicroads be more concerned with getting unregistered/unroadworthy vehicles off the road (ie booking rather than counting them) and less concerned with whether or not bikes have a front numberplate?
NovaCoder
10-Feb-2005, 10:36
I see from the same site that Vicroads is also looking for tenders to do a survey on the number of unregistered vehicles travelling on Victoria's roads. Now it might just be me but shouldn't Vicroads be more concerned with getting unregistered/unroadworthy vehicles off the road (ie booking rather than counting them) and less concerned with whether or not bikes have a front numberplate?
Now that's just crazy talk.
Imagine...
It's 1 January 2006. All Victorian motorcycles must display a front number plate decal in a visible position, or the registered owner will receive a $500 fine.
Joe Biker receives his decal in the mail, strolls to his garage then spends the rest of the day trying to work out how to apply the decal to his streetfighter.
You know it's going to happen...
What is ridiculous about all this is the amount of money that is being spent on this (something in the range of $14 mill) and that there are many more cars out there with altered/defective plates. But then again, why do we bother trying to point out these things to those in power??? :roll:
You know it's going to happen...
Joe then realises that as his streetfighter has nowhere to put it on, he must go to a vicroads office to buy an 'official' fitment piece for his bike, costing $38 + gst. However, since the 1st is a Saturday he can't go, so must wait until it opens after the holidays... Has to call in sick to work as the bike is his only transport and can't get to work without it (and being law abiding doesn't want to ride illegally)
The first open day he heads down, gets the fitment piece, and heads home. On the way he is stopped for not having a plate and when telling the police officer that he has the bracket the officer says should not be riding until it is installed as it is unsafe. $500 fine. (total cost now 538 plus time off work and fuel)
Gets home. realises that the fitment piece also doesn't fit properly, gives up on riding, and decides to buy a horse.
Is that what you had in mind?
Joe Biker receives his decal in the mail, strolls to his garage then spends the rest of the day trying to work out how to apply the decal to his streetfighter.
The Government's already thought of this, they'd expect the sticker to be placed vertically on the front left fork - then they can book you for having an obscured plate when it becomes covered in road grime, dead bugs and brake dust.
The Government's already thought of this, they'd expect the sticker to be placed vertically on the front left fork - then they can book you for having an obscured plate when it becomes covered in road grime, dead bugs and brake dust.
and which will be interesting as antidive mechanism on front forks
takes up a lot of space...leaving oh about 50mm on fork from antidive stuff to mudguard
these decals gotta be small..... :shock:
NovaCoder
10-Feb-2005, 11:13
No way in the world that I'd be paying $600 tax and then riding around with crappy stickers on the front of my bike.
roundman58
10-Feb-2005, 11:30
There has been talk of a see through refelctive sticker being placed over the headlight to accommodate lack of placement areas on some bikes, and an area that is common to all bikes. Not necessarily viable though.
Shane
Any word out of the MRAA, VMU or others?
Flipper
10-Feb-2005, 11:54
Any word out of the MRAA, VMU or others?
Try the www.mraa.org.au or http://www.vmu.org.au/ sites
They might be able to tell you more from their perspectives.
Coconuts
10-Feb-2005, 12:49
bwahahahahahahahaha :lol: :lol:
i reckon good on em. nothing like a complete waste of taxpayer money on a scheme thats doomed to fail despite the massive outlay of time and money.
big thumbs up to the GENIARSE what thunk this little gem up eh. by the time they've worked out a plan to cover the VAST number of different bikes out there and their custom variables, it'll be somewhere near the middle of the century, fossil fuels wont exist to power our bikes and those of us that didn't get vaporised in WW3 by angry pygmies that developed nuclear weapons wont reallly give much of a damn anyways.....
the system works :D
So what this says is that they still want to go ahead with it, but haven't worked out how to make it work?
It's disappointing that this whole sham hasn't been dropped by now, but it looks like they've still got a long way to go before implementing it.
Remember, they're behind in the polls right now, and while I'm no fan of conservative politics I wouldn't mind seeing these clowns out on their arses.
Any word out of the MRAA, VMU or others?
Try the www.mraa.org.au or http://www.vmu.org.au/ sites
They might be able to tell you more from their perspectives.
Spent a few seconds looking but didn't see a reference in either. Has anyone actually heard anything or is there a statement released I missed?
Don't get suckered into thinking this is a Vic state thing. It's a federal/national objective being pushed through via the Victorian government. Don't forget that the Victorian Govt was the first in the western world to introduce compulsory seat belts laws in 1970. It's being puppeterred once again for motorcycle front number plates.
http://www.ministers.dotars.gov.au/ja/releases/2004/November/joint2_2004.htm is the federal/national announcement on the national road safety action plan with a specific mention of motorcycle front number plates.
It will happen, because:
- nobody with the power to stop it has any reason to stop it,
- riders aren't an influential enough group in the community to affect the decision, and
- the general public will be happy because these days the "average Australian" resents anyone who's got something they don't (immunity from 50% of speed cameras, free use of CityLink...).
NovaCoder
10-Feb-2005, 15:24
Maybe they'll be frighten off by the risk of lawsuits from accidents blamed upon their adoption.
Cowboy1600
10-Feb-2005, 15:40
It will never happen, its completely unworkable. You cant stick it on the fork leg, USD's? You cant stick it on the fairing, naked bikes? You can put a plate on the front to stick it on, cooling? pedestrian safety? Its completely unworkable. They will however continue to waste tax payers money trying, in vain, to find a way. I wouldnt suggest we waste anytime worrying about because it wont happen.
It will happen, because:
- nobody with the power to stop it has any reason to stop it,
- riders aren't an influential enough group in the community to affect the decision, and
- the general public will be happy because these days the "average Australian" resents anyone who's got something they don't (immunity from 50% of speed cameras, free use of CityLink...).
But more so because there is no good reason against them. You can argue the money aspect waste, but that happens all the time. You can argue the fitment issue, but we don't know what fitment methods have been proposed yet so can't validly argue that they can't be fitted. If proper and acceptable method/s can be used for their fitment, and they cause no safety or bike issues, then there is no effective argument against them.
and look down the list of tenders.....
Wire rope barrier installations galore....
- Princes Hwy near Cape Otway
- Western Hwy near Dadswell Bridge
- Gippsland; Moe->Glengarry, Churchill->Traralgon
- Northern Hwy near Pyalong
- McIvor Hwy near Heathcote
Let's say they require us to fit one of two alternative plates. A screen sticker for faired bikes, or a flexy plastic plate on a flexible mount to go on the front guard of naked bikes.
No pedestrian/rider safety issues, little if any effect on cooling. Infinitely better than the old-style metal front plates bikes used to have.
I don't want to see it happen, but I can't think of a valid argument against it.
Lets get rid of the apathy GET TOGETHER and do something about the proposed changes and at the same time address the existing regulations which have been imposed upon us.
Why should 3rd party compulsory insurance differ from state to state eg: WA $165.00 NT $627.00 (others in between) and cost 100% ++ more for cars when cars make more claims. I note that there is no 3rd party for push bikers or pedestrians who also cause accidents and use the roads as much if not more than we do, who foots their bill I bet it is the motorists?.
Q: Why do we need front plates? A: “so Government and their mates can collect more $ Ask yourself “Are the coppers and the speed cameras/traps set up for YOUR safety or an excuse to collect more $
Why did they abolish front plates years ago? No mistake then, they didn’t need to see you coming only where you bin and to chase you.
Next thing for bikers will be “seat belts” or separate speed laws because you have 2 wheels, times we can ride our Bikes, have a flag waving bell ringing escort in front of us calling out beware beware bike commeth or some other revenue raising idea they can discover during a wet dream.
The simple solution would be to implant a chip in our head so they can keep track of us and debit our bank account 24/7. Don’t kid yourself, the Govt and big business would love to do it. They are already doing it to our pets and other animals. The Australia Card is not too far away then we all become a number imbedded in plastic next step the head. 1984 repeat.
What about Netrider running a poll to find out what we think ?
Law makers don't ride (bikes)
Q: Why do we need front plates? A: “so Government and their mates can collect more $ Ask yourself “Are the coppers and the speed cameras/traps set up for YOUR safety or an excuse to collect more $
OK, so why shouldn't we be like all other road users throughout the world that pay rego and insurance and display front number if they're is no safety or bike reasons not to have them? What makes us so special? If it's for policing and fines, well so what? so are rear number plates - lets argue against them too shall we?
Why did they abolish front plates years ago? No mistake then, they didn’t need to see you coming only where you bin and to chase you.
Because the metal frames on front guards were causing safety problems to riders and pedestrians during accidents.
I wouldnt suggest we waste anytime worrying about because it wont happen.
they said that about GST.......... :(
never ever ever ever trust a politician (or their public servants)
you WILL get screwed.....
and look down the list of tenders.....
Wire rope barrier installations galore....
- Gippsland; Moe->Glengarry, Churchill->Traralgon
And this makes me nervous. Other than the Princes Hwy route from Moe, all the other roads are single lane undivided roads, and all with some sort of fencing off-road anyway. Where are they gonna place the WRBs, near the road edge? Apart from stopping cars ploughing into trees (and even than that's questionable given the increasing number of high CofG 4WDs getting around here) what would be the benefit, particulaly on a cost recovery basis?
http://www.ministers.dotars.gov.au/ja/releases/2004/November/joint2_2004.htm is the federal/national announcement on the national road safety action plan with a specific mention of motorcycle front number plates.
the FNP issue is also listed in their action plan for 2005/6
see
http://www.atcouncil.gov.au/pubs/ACTION_PLAN_05_06.pdf
Page 33 ..under actions
cheers
crumpetman
11-Feb-2005, 09:51
http://www.ministers.dotars.gov.au/ja/releases/2004/November/joint2_2004.htm is the federal/national announcement on the national road safety action plan with a specific mention of motorcycle front number plates.
the FNP issue is also listed in their action plan for 2005/6
see
http://www.atcouncil.gov.au/pubs/ACTION_PLAN_05_06.pdf
Page 33 ..under actions
cheers
Wow, by the sound of things they're gonna be totally radical and shake up the system with their "Safe system framework".
I love their totally innovative policy of enforcing speed limits and pretending going 5km/h over the speed limit causes fatal crashes, mass suicides of fairy penguins and the earth falling off its axis.
so how much money was spent on creating this "new" approach to road safety?
midnight
11-Feb-2005, 10:53
I wouldnt suggest we waste anytime worrying about because it wont happen.
they said that about GST.......... :(
never ever ever ever trust a politician (or their public servants)
you WILL get screwed.....
The GST was part of the pm's policies in the 2000 election . People knew during campaigning that they were voting for it .
FOB wrote
Wait until Bonsai Johnny takes control of the Senate shortly, and then you can experience the power he has over our every day life.
The same power that Bracks has already in state level .
sbk_750
11-Feb-2005, 13:48
big 'effin deal if they wanna put front plates on bikes..... Why shouldn't they??? We are not above the law.. If you are really worried about speeding fines DON'T SPEED! :o :shock: go down the track and go fast there... its cheaper to do a rideday than to be repeatedly snapped by the road taxes. and your riding will improve tenfold :wink:
crumpetman
11-Feb-2005, 13:52
If you are really worried about speeding fines DON'T SPEED! :o :shock:
I'm more worried about cage drivers watching their speedos afraid of going 1k over the limit instead of watching out for me :shock: :roll: :shock:
takagawa
11-Feb-2005, 14:04
big 'effin deal if they wanna put front plates on bikes..... Why shouldn't they??? We are not above the law..
Yea, thing about FNP is if it does become mandatory then most likely Citylink would begin tolling motorcycles. And I'm having a nice run on them to get to uni on time. So it's just, I'm against getting rid of a good thing :)
Second is, how ugly would it look. If it was a sticker, it'd have to be big enough to be caught by the camera. FNP would stick out like a sore finger and its such a shame if you wanted to take nice pictures of your bike. Could you temporarily remove FNP? Well I dunno, unless they use statically charged plates (like those flexible L and P plates that get stuck to windows).
If it was a sticker, it'd have to be big enough to be caught by the camera.
I've heard that many of the speed/citylink cameras being used now are capable of reading the plate number off rego stickers, hence the reason they are now using such a large print (in Victoria at least). Consequently FNPs shouldn't have to be that big, I've got my rego label stuck to my bugscreen so effectively I already have a front plate.
Phoenix_Girl
11-Feb-2005, 14:30
yuk yuk dont think il put a sticker on the SP2
unless it can read move over yamaha Ha Ha :lol:
takagawa
11-Feb-2005, 15:17
If it was a sticker, it'd have to be big enough to be caught by the camera.
I've heard that many of the speed/citylink cameras being used now are capable of reading the plate number off rego stickers, hence the reason they are now using such a large print (in Victoria at least). Consequently FNPs shouldn't have to be that big, I've got my rego label stuck to my bugscreen so effectively I already have a front plate.
Just a little tip, if you go to vicroads to pay $13 for a 'replacement' rego sticker, you get one that doesn't have the rego number in large print ;)
I'm waiting for the time when they finally announce that front number plates are not working, cannot be made to work, it's all too hard, we'll scrap the idea.
Then, they come back with an electronic chip that some ubber-geek develops that is theft, vibration and weather proof and it is made mandatory that all bikes are fitted with these transponders.
Never say it can't or wont happen.
firefling
14-Feb-2005, 12:00
Then, they come back with an electronic chip that some ubber-geek develops that is theft, vibration and weather proof and it is made mandatory that all bikes are fitted with these transponders.
Will it have neons?? :lol:
Then, they come back with an electronic chip that some ubber-geek develops that is theft, vibration and weather proof and it is made mandatory that all bikes are fitted with these transponders.
Knowing Vicroads I wouldn't be surprised if they designed this in the form of a suppository, should make it fairly theft proof at least.
nil_orally
14-Feb-2005, 13:29
Then, they come back with an electronic chip that some ubber-geek develops that is theft, vibration and weather proof and it is made mandatory that all bikes are fitted with these transponders.
Knowing Vicroads I wouldn't be surprised if they designed this in the form of a suppository, should make it fairly theft proof at least.
What? They are going to make everyone ride an Across? Noooooo!
NovaCoder
14-Feb-2005, 13:47
Yep they are working on a ID tracking chip, designed to be inserted in the left buttock of the rider.
roundman58
14-Feb-2005, 13:48
Then, they come back with an electronic chip that some ubber-geek develops that is theft, vibration and weather proof and it is made mandatory that all bikes are fitted with these transponders.
Supposedly already under development in the UK and Sweden or Norway. Is to be fitted to all vehicles, along with roadside sensors throughout the whole road network, allowing for tracking and speed sensing of vehicles. No matter where you are, you can receive an infringement automatically for any and all electronically detectable transgressions.
Big Brother is watching.
not supposedly, the trials have finished now in England all they need to do is finalise the paperwork and present there results and by the sounds of it Europe will accept the proposal and implementation should begin by around mid 2006.
they said that about GST.......... :(
never ever ever ever trust a politician (or their public servants)
you WILL get screwed.....
The GST was part of the pm's policies in the 2000 election . People knew during campaigning that they were voting for it .
wasn't talking about lil' Johnnie.
a bit of history.....
As a result of their policy position during the 2000 election, the Democrats promised faithfully that if they held the balance of power during the next Senate term there would be NO GST.
It was not negotiable (statement by their leader).
It was their 'core' election promise.
and
we all know what happened after they got the balance of power .....
you just don't trust a politician :evil:
and thats my point
Surely the best reason against FNP's is that THERE IS NO VALID REASN IN FAVOUR OF THEM. Let's look at it realisticly. What the government wants us to do is force us at considerable cost to them and ourselves, into modifying a legaly bought motorcycle that already complies with Australian design rules.
Will this make bikes slower? No.
Will this make bikes safer in the event of an accident? No.
Will this give the bike magical powers that stop it from crashing? No.
Will the plates be big enough in sticker form to be visable to a bystander? No.
Will it make the bike easier to identify? No.
Will it mean city link can toll us? No, cause they still can't fit e-tags.
So what will it do?
-Potentially kill a pedestrian or rider in an accident depending on the design? Yeah.
-Potentially render a motorcycle unsafe through modification? Yep.
-impinge on the rights of the owner, not to have their safe and legal bikes damaged? yep.
-Cost the general public and absolute fortune in testing, promoting and implementing the stupid idea? Hell yeah.
i can't see why even Steve Bracks could be that stupid.
Will this make bikes slower? No.
Will this make bikes safer in the event of an accident? No.
Will this give the bike magical powers that stop it from crashing? No.
Will the plates be big enough in sticker form to be visable to a bystander? No.
Will it make the bike easier to identify? No.
Will it mean city link can toll us? No, cause they still can't fit e-tags.
Will it increase the revenue received by the governement each year from speed cameras? Yes.
Will it give the Government some nice statistics showing an increase in speeding motorcyclists they can use to prove the "success" of FNP? Yes
Does the majority of the voting population really care about the inconvenience to riders? No
I think I see where the Victorian Government's priorities lie.
Bond Girl
15-Feb-2005, 13:08
You know it's going to happen...
Joe then realises that as his streetfighter has nowhere to put it on, he must go to a vicroads office to buy an 'official' fitment piece for his bike, costing $38 + gst. However, since the 1st is a Saturday he can't go, so must wait until it opens after the holidays... Has to call in sick to work as the bike is his only transport and can't get to work without it (and being law abiding doesn't want to ride illegally)
The first open day he heads down, gets the fitment piece, and heads home. On the way he is stopped for not having a plate and when telling the police officer that he has the bracket the officer says should not be riding until it is installed as it is unsafe. $500 fine. (total cost now 538 plus time off work and fuel)
Gets home. realises that the fitment piece also doesn't fit properly, gives up on riding, and decides to buy a horse.
Is that what you had in mind?
Then has to buy a pooper scooper for his horse but can find no place to fit it, is then told by Vicroads that they have a fitment bracket available for $38 + gst!
Will it increase the revenue received by the governement each year from speed cameras? Yes.
Will it give the Government some nice statistics showing an increase in speeding motorcyclists they can use to prove the "success" of FNP? Yes
Does the majority of the voting population really care about the inconvenience to riders? No
I think I see where the Victorian Government's priorities lie.
I was being a tad sarcastic when I said Bracks couldn't be that stupid. Nothing really surprises me anymore.
The main point that still concerns me is this. In order for the plates to be safe, they would really have to be stick on. If this is the case they will have to fit any motorcycle, therefore they would need to be quite small (about the size of a rego sticker). How then are the speed cameras going to get a clear view?
Also, as the Victorian government has no authority to determine what people from other states do to their motorcycles, or to force other governments to make FNP's available to them, will they be banning interstate bikes from entering Victoria? If this is to be the case, would it constitute discrimination or a violation of peoples freedom of movement within a free and democratic country?
In order for the plates to be safe, they would really have to be stick on. If this is the case they will have to fit any motorcycle, therefore they would need to be quite small (about the size of a rego sticker). How then are the speed cameras going to get a clear view?
They are self adhesive stick-on decals of 200mm x 120mm x ~2mm thick. Lettering will be 1 of 3 colours and will take up almost the entire size of the decal. Plastic curved mounts will be available to which to apply to the bike and then attach the decal to the mount.
Also, as the Victorian government has no authority to determine what people from other states do to their motorcycles, or to force other governments to make FNP's available to them, will they be banning interstate bikes from entering Victoria?
Of course not, just like Vic can't ban 16yo NSW drivers with learner licenses from driving in Vic. But don't kid yourself, this is not wholly Vic government. It a federal initiative funded from federal money and supported by all states and territories. Victoria is just the pilot for national objective and other states will very shortly follow when they become law in Victoria.
Not sure where he hails from but I guess someone here could enlighten us. I gather from his bits that motorcycles arent his favourite form of transport.
Dear Sir
I refer to your email on the motorcycle front registration number decal.
To avoid any confusion, there is no proposal to fit number plates to the front of motorcycles, however VicRoads has been asked to develop a workable specification for a self adhesive front registration number decal and most other states and territories have contributed to the cost of doing this. However, no decision has yet been made on the implementation of front identification on motorcycles. If there is no proposal to fit FNP's, why is $12-$14 million being spent on thinking up ways to identify bikes from the front?
I am not aware of any reports that demonstrate that displaying
motorcycle's registration number on the front, so it can be read by a road
side cameras would have very little impact on the safety of motorcycling.
Nonetheless, I am aware of a number of comments from motorcycle riders to this effect, although on what basis they make this claim is unclear. Do you ride or know of any riders? It would be good to know if you ever talk with them and know what they know about riding. The report above should I guess, be written by a group of professional people (non-riders), and most probably with only a token selection of (no more than two) riders (yes people)...that is the way to get them on-side with this idea....
There is clear evidence that where road users comply with road laws it substantially reduces death and injury. And sometimes even when road users pay attention to what they should be doing, it (instead of phones, smokes, cd/radio/cassette, cat, dog, kids, spouse etc) substantially reduces death and injury.
Both educative and law enforcement measures play a major role in safe behaviour by road users, including motorcyclists. Yes true....but....most riders I know are pro-active in learning more about riding and every aspect of it. As a result of being a bike rider I think that I am a better "defensive driver" but if I had the money would like to take a driver course but I save my pennys for a riding course. A great majority too of motorcyclists are fanatical about the maintenance of their rides. Your survival rate lowers with dodgy brakes and bald tyres. What would be the ratio of dodgy cars to bikes?
For enforcement measures to be effective, it is vital that
all vehicles be readily identifiable. Why enforcement measures and not safety measures? I thought the reason for the introduction of frontal identification was to make me a whole lot safer?!?
The mobile speed cameras in use in Victoria can record the speed of vehicles from either the front or the rear. Any speeding vehicle without
front identification travelling towards the camera lens is not
identifiable. And therefore more likely to crash cos it is speeding!!! A bit of plastic on the front will fix that!
Motorcycles are the only vehicles that are not presently
required to display front registration number identification. The
introduction of a front decal for motorcycles would therefore significantly
increase the effectiveness of enforcement. But would it reduce the number of accidents, say, at a roundabout or intersection???
The decal project has been progressing steadily with work on the
development of a prototype decal Ahhhhhhhh, so one decal fits all does it?
A tender for accelerated durability testing of the prototype decal was advertised in the news papers last week and testing will begin soon. I guess this means that they test it over a 3 week period using extreme conditions in a controlled environment. Then when it is released and adopted and it sits on the front of the bike, after two weeks it is unreadable when it is in real weather (sorta like the lifetime goop that a big telecoms company used, and it lasted only two years....). The other difference in this situation is when that decal is unreadable, the authorities will enforce the replacement or cop a fine (unlike the, I would speculate, hundreds and thousands of defective plates that you see on cars...both ends...mo money).
Does raising a stink do any good??? :roll:
Are these people are gonna do it no matter what we say??? :x
col
You know, occasionally I think that I am like a hat-wearing volvo driver on my bike on the open road - sometimes I give the beast (92 CBR1000F - the 'F' stands for fastish...) a bit of a go but I pick my spots (which are always un-populated) and the roads are twisty (but dry).
I have to look after her because she has a few k's on the clock and major services are expensive (but required, and by trained professionals who love her too). I regularly check her vitals like oil, tyre pressure, functioning lights etc. For her age she is looking pretty good and is still great to ride.
I not may be a hat-wearing volvo driver after all, but I think, a 40 something helmeted seeker of the open road.
Are these people are gonna do it no matter what we say??? :x
Yes, because there is no valid argument against them.
If there is no proposal to fit FNP's, why is $12-$14 million being spent on thinking up ways to identify bikes from the front?
I think that the Vicroads chap was refering to front number plates. ie: steel ones, like we have on the back. However, they are looking at front identifiers, in the form of decals or whatever.
Also, as the Victorian government has no authority to determine what people from other states do to their motorcycles, or to force other governments to make FNP's available to them, will they be banning interstate bikes from entering Victoria?
Of course not, just like Vic can't ban 16yo NSW drivers with learner licenses from driving in Vic. But don't kid yourself, this is not wholly Vic government. It a federal initiative funded from federal money and supported by all states and territories. Victoria is just the pilot for national objective and other states will very shortly follow when they become law in Victoria.
This raises an interesting point. In NSW, they require bikes to have labels affixed to their exhaust systems that shows noise emission data. It's not required here in Vic. Yet, if we venture into NSW, we're required to have the label fitted before crossing the border.
How would this be any different to Victoria's FNP law, if at the time, it's the only state that has such a requirement? Mind you, I'm talking about a scenario where we're the only state that has such a law in force.
Are these people are gonna do it no matter what we say??? :x
Yes, because there is no valid argument against them.
What about cost effectiveness? What are the benefits of implementing such a scheme? The figures regarding bikes avoiding speeding fines seem to suggest that per capita (if that's the right term to use here), we're factoring in much lower than cars that can't be identified from the front.
I personally can't put up a decent argument that'd convince them to drop the idea, other than cost effectiveness, no tangible safety benefits, etc..
One reason that Bob Hastings, then ass.commish for traffic said was that it'd aid in the detection and apprehension of crooks who use bikes for the commission of a crime. Thing is, most self respecting crooks usually steal other people's vehicles when they want to do over a servo or a bank. So, I dunno how that one flies.
With Citylink, it's mostly anecdotal, but from what I've heard, bike traffic on the tollway is nearly non-existant, and those who do use it would end up going on alternative routes, rat runs, if you will, to bypass the tollway. That's a lot easier to do than in a car or truck.
Of course, they've yet to come up with a decent e-tag for bikes. But then, they could change the rules - any vehicle identified on Citylink gets sent a bill if not already an e-tag holder. You can opt for that now, instead of having a day pass, which is what I get when I use it.
In NSW, they require bikes to have labels affixed to their exhaust systems that shows noise emission data. Isnt that info on the compliance plate on most bikes? Is it still required if the original pipes are on the bike?
With Citylink, it's mostly anecdotal, but from what I've heard, bike traffic on the tollway is nearly non-existant, and those who do use it would end up going on alternative routes, rat runs, if you will, to bypass the tollway. That's a lot easier to do than in a car or truck. If they implemented FNP's and started tolling bikes I would pick an alternative route and avoid that. I can zip through the city traffic and not lose too much time. I dont even reckon that the revenue from bikes would be all that great anyway....
What about cost effectiveness? There is a lengthy document that details this and just about everything else including comments from the industry etc...just about all of them reject the idea.
Does anyone have the link to the doc?
I personally can't put up a decent argument that'd convince them to drop the idea, other than cost effectiveness They estimate that it will cost around $14 million to implement and recoup a few hundred thousand in return.
no tangible safety benefits A shiny plastic plate on the front of your bike. I feel safe thinking about it :roll:
[quote="mouth"][They are self adhesive stick-on decals of 200mm x 120mm x ~2mm thick. Lettering will be 1 of 3 colours and will take up almost the entire size of the decal. Plastic curved mounts will be available to which to apply to the bike and then attach the decal to the mount.quote]
There is nowhere on my bike capable of holding a sicker that size in clear view so should they become mandatory, I'd be needing a mount. My new question is where will it be fitted to? This is taking into account that all bikes have different sized front mudgards, nakeds don't have fairings and the forks are definately out of the question.
Also, has anyone herd if the government is conducting a study into the effects of having a curved plastic mount hit you in the neck during an accident? :? :?
in the wind
17-Feb-2005, 19:23
[quote]In NSW, they require bikes to have labels affixed to their exhaust systems that shows noise emission data. Isnt that info on the compliance plate on most bikes? Is it still required if the original pipes are on the bike?
If the original pipes are on the bike the cops are not going to go looking for any tags, they will only have a problem if they think your bike is to loud, a mate of mine rode to NSW on his harley and he got a fine for not complying
If the original pipes are on the bike the cops are not going to go looking for any tags How will they be able to tell if they are original or not? I am not sure that pipes that are originally fitted and remain on a bike have any indication where they are manufactured...I still have the pipes on mine that it come with and they do have Honda etched into them but no indication that they are original. :roll:
they will only have a problem if they think your bike is to loud, a mate of mine rode to NSW on his harley and he got a fine for not complying Did they have any testing equipment to be able to carry out a road side test and certify the level coming from the pipes? If not (I dont think they do have anything they carry around with them except for their ears :lol: ) , do they issue a notice to have the pipes tested within a certain period of time and present the result to the Police?
AFAIK that is what should happen.
Are there any bikes that dont have compliance plates fitted or do all require them? I am guessing that there are a few harleys and rebuilt ones around that dont have them...
Also, has anyone herd if the government is conducting a study into the effects of having a curved plastic mount hit you in the neck during an accident? :? :?
I'd be far more concerned of what I was going to hit when sliding down the road than worrying about some number plate holder hitting me.
There are far more dangerous bits on a bike that would instill greater wounds/pain/suffering than a front number plate.
If the original pipes are on the bike the cops are not going to go looking for any tags, they will only have a problem if they think your bike is to loud, a mate of mine rode to NSW on his harley and he got a fine for not complying
the latest TwoWheels has a article in it re the NSW EPA
which states that new EPA in-service tests require motorcycles to comply with stricter exhaust level standards than when new. This has also been given
legal status thru new legislation supporting the EPA stance on noise
plus .. no zorst sticker $200 fine ..plus... inappropriate noise...$150
I reckon a ride....5000 riders descend on NSW parliament
then PUSH their bikes (motors off) along the road to avoid fines
now that would be a protest ride....
btw
a lot more info here.....
www.mccofnsw.org.au
raffiki
18-Feb-2005, 14:42
[quote=Seany]Also, has anyone herd if the government is conducting a study into the effects of having a curved plastic mount hit you in the neck during an accident? :? :?
while i do agree with that why should you add to the list of things that could possibly hit you?
i dont like it because the front of my pretty bike is the only bit that doesn’t have battle scars and i don’t want to have to pay on city link cause i am a scab. i’m not necessarily against it, but i am against it now because the money could be put to better use elsewhere.
why cant they fix up the current system before they throw $14 mill at a fnp which will really only bring in a few hundred grand and take away a few bike licences (hopefully off those wankers who go down to st kilda in the evenings). maybe in 30 years time they will recoup these costs.
do something about the unroadworthy cars, old faded number plates, old bastards who cant see anymore, re-educating people on new road laws, young p platers with daddies sti’d rex, the shit road lines which you cant see when it raining at night, soccer mums in their 4wd’s, cheese graters… the list goes on.
There are far more dangerous bits on a bike that would instill greater wounds/pain/suffering than a front number plate.
Present company included... :lol: :lol: :lol:
gsxr1000
24-Feb-2005, 18:02
Front number plates for motorbikes moved a step closer to being introduced, with VicRoads calling for testing of number-plate decals.............................
http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=9311&vf=2&bg=1&pp=3
Kamikaze_Kawasaki
24-Feb-2005, 18:07
yeah and look how big they are :shock: :evil:
good gods that's ugly! hope it never gets introduced.
That's ugly, its just another form of revenue raising and political BS.
Pity the beaureaucrats don't get off their shiny buts and talk to the riders about "safety improvements".
I'm damn sure we (colectively) could suggest a vast array of things the Govt. should spend money on.
IMHO
well i have personalise plates "GMAN" and i am not paying for another plate!!!!!
Do you get a free front fairing and bubble screen with your number plate?
I've got a CB250 completely unfaired. Not sure how I'm going to attach a number plate to the front of my bike... :?
Don't know the source of these so cant vouch for their authenticity, but these are allegedly (leaked?) samples of the frontal identification number decals being trialled in Victoria.
Cruiser http://tinyurl.com/5upqd
Sports bike http://tinyurl.com/485a8
Decal close-up http://tinyurl.com/7xba7
cheers
Bond Girl
24-Feb-2005, 23:48
Lucky me no screen!
Thank God I've got a CB250. There's no way that thing's going to fit! Love the photo's, but if they've gone that far & still not realised some bikes are naked we've got problems. Of course, we know about the mounts, but curiously no-one's leaked photo's of these. Call me cynical but could that be because they're either dangerous, don't work, don't fit or a combination of these factors. Perhaps they just figured they were too ugly to allow photographic evidence.
VtrElmarco
25-Feb-2005, 16:34
A rotten pumpkin thrown onto the front of your bike would look better.
Thank God I've got a CB250. There's no way that thing's going to fit! Love the photo's, but if they've gone that far & still not realised some bikes are naked we've got problems.
Just hope you read the drive.com.au article? i.e
A flexible sticker that could adhere to motorbike farings is being tested. But for riders with "naked" bikes (those without farings), finding a place to stick the decal is likely to pose a greater problem and may require some form of mounting device.
--
So at least it hasn't been forgotten (hopefully they don't find out a way to put FNPs on bikes for many years :) )
A flexible sticker that could adhere to motorbike farings is being tested. But for riders with "naked" bikes (those without farings), finding a place to stick the decal is likely to pose a greater problem and may require some form of mounting device.
I wonder what this mounting device would look like. If it's the same size and shape as the decal, then they might as well make you put a number plate on instead. Thing is, the mounting device needs to be safe, and not pose a threat like what front plates supposedly did.
Me, I'll mount my sticker at the top of the fairing screen.......
gixxersrule
27-Feb-2005, 01:33
A flexible sticker that could adhere to motorbike farings is being tested. But for riders with "naked" bikes (those without farings), finding a place to stick the decal is likely to pose a greater problem and may require some form of mounting device.
I wonder what this mounting device would look like. If it's the same size and shape as the decal, then they might as well make you put a number plate on instead. Thing is, the mounting device needs to be safe, and not pose a threat like what front plates supposedly did.
Me, I'll mount my sticker at the top of the fairing screen.......
Im not puttin that crapola on my Gixxer.If we all just say no and refuse to put the plates on our bikes,what are they gonna do,lock us all up. :evil: If they fine us,dont pay,take it to court,if we cause a big enough back log in the courts ,they'll have to think again about what they're doin. :twisted: We can always take our plates off,leave our licenses at home (pushie rider style! :lol: )and block the Burnley Tunnel for say 12 hours on a Friday. :twisted: If theres a few hundred/thousand of us,wtf are they gonna do hey? Maybe make it a weekly event. Glad to see that $50 increase in Reg is going to a great cause like FNPs!! :roll: :roll: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
BTW: Putting a sticker on your screen is the equivelent of putting a huge sticker across the windscreen of your car,ie real good for blocking visibility. :roll:
[mod:edited swearing] Whoops! :D
Im not puttin that crapola on my Gixxer.If we all just say no and refuse to put the plates on our bikes,what are they gonna do,lock us all up. :evil:
No, just fine you. Don't pay the fine, they cancel your rego.
We can always take our plates off,leave our licenses at home (pushie rider style! :lol: )and block the Burnley Tunnel for say 12 hours on a Friday. :twisted: If theres a few hundred/thousand of us,wtf are they gonna do hey?
Maybe block each end of the tunnel and start pumping teargas into it...
Whatever, such an exercise would be a public relations disaster for motorcyclists. And in any case, most of us will accept it without a fight. It's the Aussie way.
gixxersrule
27-Feb-2005, 14:01
Im not puttin that crapola on my Gixxer.If we all just say no and refuse to put the plates on our bikes,what are they gonna do,lock us all up. :evil:
No, just fine you. Don't pay the fine, they cancel your rego.
We can always take our plates off,leave our licenses at home (pushie rider style! :lol: )and block the Burnley Tunnel for say 12 hours on a Friday. :twisted: If theres a few hundred/thousand of us,wtf are they gonna do hey?
Maybe block each end of the tunnel and start pumping teargas into it...
Whatever, such an exercise would be a public relations disaster for motorcyclists. And in any case, most of us will accept it without a fight. It's the Aussie way.
Typical Aussie apathy. :( :lol: Public relations disaster? They treat us like crap now mate,how could it possibly get worse?Have you actually ridden a bike in city traffic lately?? The government puts our reg up $50 then uses it to install another revenue raising device specifically aimed at us and everyone just says, ah well,nothing we can do. :o :shock: Bugger that,ill mount a one man protest if i have to!lol! :lol:
The overwhelming reaction from Joe Public would be: "why shouldn't bikes have front number plates like every other vehicle?".
The only argument against front plates that might convince non-riders would be that they're dangerous (which is why we don't have the old-style metal plates any more).
The general response to statements like "my bike will look ugly", or "the government is picking on us" will be "so go buy a car".
I'd prefer to see the status quo remain, but IMO no-one here's put an argument against front plates that would be convincing to the broader community.
I'd prefer to see the status quo remain, but IMO no-one here's put an argument against front plates that would be convincing to the broader community FNPs are being introduced as a safety measure. Where are the stats and predicted results that indicate that a FNP on the front of my bike, will make me safer??
The various Gov's and other bodies involved in the trials are spending approx $14 million.
You cant tell me that there are valid reasons for their introduction.
col
The Government's argument would be that once you start getting speeding fines from front-facing cameras, you will change your behaviour, ride slower and therefore be safer.
While slower = safer may be highly debatable, they would argue that front plates will encourage behaviour change.
gixxersrule
27-Feb-2005, 15:46
The Government's argument would be that once you start getting speeding fines from front-facing cameras, you will change your behaviour, ride slower and therefore be safer.
So basically,the governments discriminating against us by assuming we all break the limit all the time. :roll:
Ditto for car drivers, truck drivers, bus drivers...
That's the difficulty in arguing against front plates for bikes. The Government can say it just corrects an anomaly and results in bikes being treated just like everyone else on the road (except cyclists but that's another story).
The Government can say it just corrects an anomaly and results in bikes being treated just like everyone else on the road (except cyclists but that's another story). Whilst front plates were removed some 30 odd years ago due to 'real' safety reasons (i.e. metal plates mounted on the front fender would have, I imagine, done some damage), the change to the configuration of bikes in that time has undergone a momentous change. To introduce FNP's on bikes of today will be an interesting exercise in seeing just how exactly do they design for the different bikes.
In a previous post there was a letter from some knob who is involved in this and in the opening paragraph in a letter he says that there is no requiement for FNP's, but they are going to spend shitloads looking at it anyway.
WTF :roll:
gixxersrule
27-Feb-2005, 16:03
Ditto for car drivers, truck drivers, bus drivers...
That's the difficulty in arguing against front plates for bikes. The Government can say it just corrects an anomaly and results in bikes being treated just like everyone else on the road (except cyclists but that's another story).
Hmmm,arguing against the government,may as well just smash my head into a wall repeatedly! :lol: ](*,)
Well,i actually use my screen for wind/rain protection,so if i have a poofter plate on my screen and i cant see clearly because of and i have an accident,can i sue? Or does the government think thats just our problem to deal with,which imo,is disciminating against us and endangering us. :shock:
FNPs are being introduced as a safety measure. Where are the stats and predicted results that indicate that a FNP on the front of my bike, will make me safer??
In the latest issue of the MRA newsletter, due out soon, there will be some info on this issue. There's info from both our committees who are dealing with this as well as correspondence from the NSW Motorcycle Council.
It's not a safety issue, even though it's being "marketed" as one. It's a law enforcement/detection issue. The number of bikes that don't get pinged because of an absence of front plates is less "per capita" than that of cars, trucks, etc.. As far as roads like Citylink go, where tollways have rearward facing cameras, (cameras that take photos of you from the front) bike traffic is minimal. Anecdotal evidence may suggest that a lot of riders, if forced to pay Citylink tolls will avoid the tollway system and use suburban rat runs.
Cost effectiveness for the project is not there. But the governments are determined to see it through. Probably through stubborn authoritarianism more than anything else.
jarrodcc
27-Feb-2005, 19:00
Soon their may be tolls for motorbikes as I work for a company that is putting in the forward facing gantries that take happy snaps of rear numberplates. Work started last Sunday night.
They say they want to get people who sit up the arse of trucks.
gixxersrule
27-Feb-2005, 19:31
Looks like Bracksy has spent more than he budgeted for again :roll: Ah well,just chuck in a dozen more cameras in a 1km stretch,she'll be right :roll: :evil: Revenue hungry mofo :evil: :evil:
They say they want to get people who sit up the arse of trucks.
Nooooooooo, I do that now, no eslag on the Saab so I sit close enough to avoid paying the tolls.
I believe the front plates on nakeds/road trails etc will be some rubber mounting thing. Which is just great considering that the aussie biek market accounts for less than 3% of all bikes produced. That is for australia not just victoria so manufacturers are obviously not goinf to design bikes with rubber mounted things in mind. About the only argument against front number plates that may be accepted by non-bike riders is the fact that rubber mounted things can creat stability problems on bikes not designed for them as well as obstruct air flow for cooling etc. Bottom line as has already been said here, only people that care about front number plates are bike riders. The non riding fraternity dont give a rats and look at us "as getting away with it" so will prob favour this draconian bracks idea. Will it really happen? Of course it will and is in teh pip line. Testing finished about 6 months ago at calder. The only thing holding it back now is political timing. It IS going to happen. Just like "there will be no wire rope barriers"!!! I think by now we all know the Vic government doesnt care at all about safety. It is all about the taxes. Taxes by votes.
Cheers
Tones
Nice to see our general inaction as a community resulted in us having to wear a $50 levy. Which in turn funds boofhead Bracks' ridiculous campaign to make us wear front number plates. I was even more worried when I saw the calls for tender notice in the paper :o
TAC doesnt like bikes. Easiest way is to start taxing em to lower numbers. NSW is using EPA regs currently to achieve the same sort of thing. Ever get the idea that some politician is sitting in traffic somewhere (or should I say some chaufer for a poli is) and the see a bike splitting lanes and they get jelous???
Removed_User6
14-Mar-2005, 09:04
Soon their may be tolls for motorbikes as I work for a company that is putting in the forward facing gantries that take happy snaps of rear numberplates. Work started last Sunday night.
They say they want to get people who sit up the arse of trucks.
There allways has been a toll from the day shittylink opened for motorbikes , but it just was never inforced as they couldnt enforce it .
so that isnt anything new.
TAC doesnt like bikes. Easiest way is to start taxing em to lower numbers
TAC has nothing really to do with it , regardless if we get plates or not it has no real bearing on them unless it causes more or less injuries
Nice to see our general inaction as a community resulted in us having to wear a $50 levy I dont think inaction from the general motorcycle community had anything to to with it as the levy was passed without anyones notice, except maybe for VMAC who do little anyway.
Which in turn funds boofhead Bracks' ridiculous campaign to make us wear front number plates I think that you will find that no money from the levy will be spent on FNP's.
Brian26146
16-Mar-2005, 20:30
I know this is resurecting the flogged horse, but I just got this reply from the minister to my email about the FNPs
FRONT NUMBER PLATES FOR MOTORCYCLES
I refer to your e-mail dated 10 February 2005, addressed to the
Minister for Transport, regarding front number plates for motorcycles.
Your correspondence has been referred to me for reply.
In response to a request from the Ministerial Council for Road Safety,
VicRoads is developing a workable specification for a self-adhesive
decal to show a motorcycle’s registration number on the front.
However, no decision has been made on implementation of a requirement
to fit decals.
Motorcyclists are vastly over-represented in road trauma statistics.
They represent less than one per cent of travel on our roads, yet
accounted for around 12 per cent of the road toll in 2004.
Speeding is a major contributor to road trauma and research shows that
even a small increase in speed can increase crash risk significantly.
There is no safe margin by which riders or drivers can exceed the
speed limit.
The safety benefit associated with a motorcycle front registration
number decal is derived from encouragement of greater compliance with
speed limits through enforcement. Compliance with road safety laws is
an important contributor to a lower road toll. This is achieved
through education and enforcement for all road users. It is important
that all vehicles can be readily identified to enable effective
enforcement.
The precise cost of a motorcycle front registration number decal
cannot be established until a workable specification is finalised.
However, to date, States and Territories throughout Australia have
contributed just under $350,000 to the motorcycle front number plate
project.
Thank you for your interest in this matter.
Yours sincerely
Signed by
DAVID ANDERSON
CHIEF EXECUTIVE
16 / 3 /2005
Still the same old shit.
Brian
(G)OFARC#3
voyager
17-Mar-2005, 09:05
I have to agree with Mouth - so long as the plate does not impede rider safety, there really isn't an effective argument against them. Not saying I WANT them, just that I can't find a valid reason aside from safety to NOT have them.
I find it entertaining though that the picture provided for "cruiser" includes a monstrous great screen, conveniently there so the sticker fits on it. I don't have a screen on my cruiser, so I suppose I'll have to put the sticker on my helmet instead... oh, but isn't there some safety issue with putting stickers on helmets that can supposedly damage them and break the AS compliance???
I have to agree with Mouth - so long as the plate does not impede rider safety, there really isn't an effective argument against them. Not saying I WANT them, just that I can't find a valid reason aside from safety to NOT have them.
I find it entertaining though that the picture provided for "cruiser" includes a monstrous great screen, conveniently there so the sticker fits on it. I don't have a screen on my cruiser, so I suppose I'll have to put the sticker on my helmet instead...
The real issue with FNPs is the fact that the money spent on developing the whole process could be spent in other areas of safety to obtain a far better result. There is no real argument other than the financial one.
If you are looking at electronic tracking however then there are significant issues about privacy and civil liberties which then arise. This is particularly so in Victoria with the known abuse of police databases. If this gets proposed then we'll have a lot more support against it (think what happened with the Australia Card concept)
On a lighter note, there's not much that wouldn't improve the looks of most cruisers... Anything that covers them up must improve matters. :lol: :lol: :lol:
TonyE
matt232
17-Mar-2005, 09:31
nope no need to put the sticker on your helmet, vicroads will have a bloody great rubber attachment for the front of your bike which you get to go out and purchase for $30+ dollars and whack the decal on that.
But you do bring up an interesting possiblity. If they can make the number plate thinner then you could stick it along the top of your visor and use it as a sun shield when riding into the sun at dawn/dusk by tilting your head down.
Something along the lines of this (http://www.helmetharbor.com/sunblocker/opening.htm).
But then you run into the issue of the head being registered and not the bike, and a quick turn of the head and to goes from a FNP to a SNP. Can't see Vicroads going for it even though it is the only way I can see the bloody things being useful to me.
voyager
17-Mar-2005, 10:20
The real issue with FNPs is the fact that the money spent on developing the whole process could be spent in other areas of safety to obtain a far better result. There is no real argument other than the financial one.
I quite agree, and rather than stuffing around with number plates, they could simply improve the cameras, since revenue raising, realistically, is the only "positive" outcome of the exercise, and that can be achieved without touching the bikes themselves.
Chairman
17-Mar-2005, 11:04
I have to agree with Mouth - so long as the plate does not impede rider safety, there really isn't an effective argument against them. Not saying I WANT them, just that I can't find a valid reason aside from safety to NOT have them.
There is a gap in the logic here - the absence of a reason for doing something is not, of itself, a reason FOR doing it. There is no reason NOT to pave all east-west streets with pink bitumen, but that doesn't constitute a reason FOR doing so.
When bureaurocrats do something because they can rather than because they should, the effect is creeping regulation.
The regulatory authorities argue that FNPs will encourage compliance and, in turn, make the roads a safer place. These are the arguments that we need to defeat if we are to avoid FNPs - either by showing that the conclusions are faulty, that the costs of implementation outweigh the benefits or that unintended consequences of FNPs create a greater problem than the issues they were intended to resolve. Nonsense about our civil rights isn't going to get us anywhere because FNPs just limit our civil rights to the same extent as every other registered road user, and I don't see motorcyclists successfully lobbying to overturn the whole number plate system.
There is no safe margin by which riders or drivers can exceed the
speed limit.
... This is achieved
through education and enforcement for all road users.
DAVID ANDERSON
CHIEF EXECUTIVE
Okay David, where is the education? I can see the advertising but not the education.
We are living in an increasingly surreal world.
Until quite recently, suburban streets had a 60 km/h limit. Travelling at 55 km/h was safe and legal. Now the same streets have a 50 km/h limit, and as there is no safe margin by which drivers can exceed the speed limit, travelling at 55 km/h is unsafe and illegal.
Welcome to Loonyville.
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